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Framework Laptop 16 Review

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#271

Post by Aeolun »

ochoseis wrote: post #263
jakamau wrote: post #190

I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time. On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company…

> On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). They must have a ton of brand equity / good will…

If someone gave me the option between soldering it myself and having it repaired, I’d for for soldering too. I can do that right now, while getting it repaired means sending it back and forth.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#272

Post by alwayslikethis »

vetinari wrote: post #256
alwayslikethis wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note GTK3/4 doesn't have true fractional scaling. What it does is scaling up to 2x and downsample to the required resolution. This is not that visible but it does produce some blur, along with the performance overhead. Qt5 doesn't support it either, though Qt6 does. Of course we'll see improvement, but I doubt it would get to the same level as Windows in the next 5 years or so, which is a long time.

> This is not that visible but it does produce some blur At these pixel sizes (except 125%), it is irrelevant. MacOS and iPhone do exactly the same for years, and nobody was ever bothered. > along with the performance overhead. By the increased resolution of the framebuffer; the scaling itself is done by hardware (and here I do not mean GPU; I mean output encoder).

125% and 150% are really common for available laptops though. The former for the 1920x1200 13-14 inch laptops, the latter for 2560x1600 15-16 inch laptops. iOS doesn't do fractionally scaling, only 2x, and Macs are all designed to run at 200%, though you can set it to 175% or 150%. MacOS looks equally terrible at 125% or 100% (this is due to the lack of subpixel rendering, but I digress)

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#273

Post by ncallaway »

jakamau wrote: post #190

I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time. On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company…

> I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module

Yes! As another owner of the FW13, if they released some kind of external adapter for the FW16 GPU I'd definitely purchase the GPU and the adapter the day its open for sale.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#274

Post by spartanatreyu »

lousken wrote: post #194
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions folks have on this product.

any plans for upgrades not just for the webcam and mic but also the speakers (though side instead of down maybe problematic)? since they did not get much praise from LTT

Webcams and mics will always be shitty on a laptop.

But speakers should be an area of focus.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#275

Post by noirbot »

jwells89 wrote: post #258
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery life is inherently a trade off against performance and weight. It's also a trade off against competence, because you can kill the battery right quick if drivers don't idle things properly, but even after you address that you still have the other thing. Which makes 16+ hour battery life an odd choice for most people. Who uses their laptop for 16 contiguous hours with no opportunity to charge? It could have bee…

Long battery life isn’t so much about contiguous use as it is about not needing to think about charging as often and being able to not carry a laptop charger brick on excursions. It also lets you still have “normal” laptop life left over after periods of high-intensity usage. Also generally speaking more efficient laptops are cooler which is generally a quality welcome in a device sometimes used in a person’s lap.

Yea, the Framework's battery issue for me is mostly that there is almost literally no point I could ever trust not having a power outlet nearby with the cable. I've had times where the computer, while fully shut down, loses 30% of the battery life in a few hours.

Sure, it's the bulk of a Macbook Air, but I often leave that open, with the screen on, running VMs for work all day without it being plugged in. I expect that any time I open it, I'll have at least 30-60 minutes of use before I need to plug it in. My Framework, more often than not, tells me it's about to emergency shut down as soon as I log in.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#276

Post by csdvrx »

natrys wrote: post #55
nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions folks have on this product.

Any chance we can get Japanese keyboard? You asked for feedback on it a while ago: https://community.frame.work/t/request-review-of-korean-belg... (am not even Japanese, just have bad habit of using thumb clusters a lot, and this is the only layout with small space bar)

> (am not even Japanese, just have bad habit of using thumb clusters a lot, and this is the only layout with small space bar)

Same, the 106/109 keys JP layout is wonderful!

I use the Ro key as a quick desktop toggle (right next to PageUp on my Thinkpad keyboard) and the Yen key as a full-word erase (like Ctrl-W on bash)

The extra left and right thumbs are also extrely helpful to have Home and End in an easy-to reach position.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#277

Post by pomian »

leeman2016 wrote: post #99
Maskawanian wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love framework's mission. I would not change the past on buying a framework. To provide a counter example, quite often I open my bag to find that my Framework 13 has cooked itself in the bag. The battery life, and the bad intel sleep management have been a thorn in my side since I got it. But the power management does leave much to be desired. Given LTT's review of the laptop, it may be best to wait for the 2nd rev…

You're not alone with the cooking laptop in a bag running Linux issue. I had those in the past with Dell/Toshiba laptops in the past.

Is this going to sleep? Or hibernate? I found that most notebooks(under Windows) are horrible at "sleeping", but if you enable hibernate, then the notebook can last days, without losing charge. (Dell, HP, Asus, etc.)

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#278

Post by m463 »

vehemenz wrote: post #244
RomanPushkin wrote: post #7

I wish they deliver good keyboard as well, like Thinkpads X201 or similar have. I am happy owner of modded X201 with updated screen, motherboard, and so on. It's not on a cheap side, but I'm happy to pay that price _only_ for the keyboard option. It's so cool. Folks back then knew what was important.

It would never happen, but I'd like to have a no-keyboard option. I never use my laptop keyboard because I have an HHKB, rendering it unnecessary. Instead of a keyboard, I'd like a flat surface where I can rest my HHKB and maybe an L-shaped connector to plug in the USB-C.

I wish that portable form factor like the dolch pc would come back.

monitor part of the case with a fold out detachable keyboard.

this is a terrible example of what I mean:

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/userdata/images/large/PRO...

but imagine something like that with a more modern take.

EDIT: ok here it is:

http://portexa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/FlexPAC-III-23...

look up "flexpac iii"

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#279

Post by NotSammyHagar »

nolist_policy wrote: post #131
whalesalad wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My M2 air will outlast the workday. Obscene battery life. I can’t imagine using a Linux notebook after this level of performance.

Or just get the Framework Chromebook and get the best of both worlds.

I have the chromebook, it's great. So easy to do linux stuff. I do wish the cpu scheduler or something related to chromeos could be improved for heavy cpu use. If I run firefox in the linux env, and I open a bunch of tabs, the fan spins up a good amount. It would be soooo much better if there was a way to tell chromeos to use a max amount of resources temporarily, like opening a web browser with lots of tabs. That's my only real complaint, when I overload the system with work.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#280

Post by cmrdporcupine »

binkHN wrote: post #158
anonporridge wrote: post #152

I wanted to love Framework, but it just doesn't compete at all with my X1 Carbon. Then again, I've failed to find any laptop that I like more than the X1 Carbon. It's damn near perfect.

Love the X1C, would love it more if it wasn't Intel-only.

Be careful what you wish for. I went with an Ryzen thinkpad last year (Z16 Gen 1) and it's been a big headache. Only after about a year did software (BIOS mainly) support settle into something not scary flaky. Things like external USB displays completely breaking for a couple months. Fan control breaking. Power mgmt in general not great.

I am fairly certain an Intel system would have had less drama.

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