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Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

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Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#271

Post by bombcar »

sylware wrote: post #253
Y_Y wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible for me, or worse, a normal person, to claim or request an ipv6 address that they can keep and use like a phone number? I'm used to dynamic allocation for residential ipv4 addresses and never bothered to beg ARIN for some or rent since from an ISP. Having an address you could keep and bring with you would be great and avoid a lot of the difficulties of DNS.

An IP is not a global phone number. You cannot port the same "number" from one carrier to another. If we want that, global orgs in charge of the global phone number mapping must coordinate around some slice of the IPv6 address space (what they already do with international roaming of phone numbers). This will be very hard to operate safely, very probably.

There remain the trappings of what was designed to be static IPv6 addresses that would dynamically route to the network that device was - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_IP

I don't know if it's actually being used. IIRC since then everything has moved to a higher layer.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#272

Post by ynik »

Y_Y wrote: post #227
sylware wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. IPv6 will, finally, enabled the real internet: all p2p protocols will start to work seamlessly. I am thinking a super simple no-dns IP (audio|video) phone protocol listening only on tcp 1 port, new bittorrent like protocol for live streaming, etc. Since IPv6 has been almost everywhere in my country for years: enjoying ssh session everywhere (ipv6 mobile internet)…

Is it possible for me, or worse, a normal person, to claim or request an ipv6 address that they can keep and use like a phone number? I'm used to dynamic allocation for residential ipv4 addresses and never bothered to beg ARIN for some or rent since from an ISP. Having an address you could keep and bring with you would be great and avoid a lot of the difficulties of DNS.

Theoretically possible? Yes: https://chown.me/blog/getting-my-own-asn

A good idea? No.

IP addresses are used for routing. Every provider-independent block of addresses needs its own entry in the global routing tables, which are stored on basically every BGP router in the world. There's a limit to the size of these tables, as they need to be stored in special TCAM memory.

Note that IPv4 currently has many more routes than IPv6 not only due to higher adoption, but also due to higher fragmentation: some providers are obtaining many small non-consecutive blocks from different sources (buying addresses wherever they are cheapest), which results in a large number of routing entries. The increase in the overall table size means all other ISPs have to buy new hardware sooner than they would have without the increase caused by fragmentation. Everyone having their own personal address block would cause even worse fragmentation issues.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#273

Post by apearson »

commandersaki wrote: post #205
orangeboats wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am so surprised by the hate for IPv6 in this thread. I find that HN views IPv6 noticeably more harshly than many other communities I have been a part of (e.g. networking subreddits and gaming communities). I am curious of the reason behind this.

My reason: IPv6 failed to fulfill its original objective.

Which is?

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#274

Post by bombcar »

dns_snek wrote: post #219
iLoveOncall wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people said exactly this about IPv4 back in the days.

Can you even begin to imagine a use case that could come close to exhausting an IP space that is perfectly capable of assigning a /60 subnet to every single grain of sand on earth? That subnet is large enough to then assign an IP address to every individual atom in that grain of sand. For comparison, if we wanted to assign every living person on Earth a grain of sand, we would only need a few cubic feet of it (less t…

Allowing a credit card company to have a /16 is one way to do it. Do that 65,535 more times and IPv6 is exhausted.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#275

Post by dtaht »

p1mrx wrote: post #69
notatoad wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cool, but "read and change your data on all websites" is imho not worth the functionality. that seems ripe for takeover by some scammer.

IPvFoo author here. The problem is that there's no way to obtain the (hostname, ip) stream from Chrome/Firefox without requesting the "all websites" permission. In theory, browser vendors could define a narrowly-scoped permission that only reports (hostname, ip), or roll this functionality into the browser UI, but neither seems likely to happen. I made IPvFoo to promote IPv6 adoption, and wouldn't consider selling it…

Thank you for writing this tool. It cheers me up every time I see a green 6.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#276

Post by bombcar »

bilekas wrote: post #209
schroeding wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a practical demonstration: That's the reason decimal IPs work, too - i.e. http://3520653007/ is the same as http://209.216.230.207/ (and both will go to HN) - it's all just nice formating for our human brains. Nothing would stop us from formatting IPv6 the IPv4 way except the monstrous length of the resulting address.

My whole life I went without knowing decimal IPs were a thing..

There's more than just decimal .... https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/04/19/curl-those-funny-ipv4...

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#277

Post by diggan »

Rudism wrote: post #255
diggan wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you seem to know what you're talking about: Imagine a scenario where we have nano-bots to perform "repairs" in our bodies or whatever, and obviously each individual nano-bot use TCP over IPv6 because future software developers are also as lazy as us. Instead of taking paracetamol, people take nano-bot-shots which include (presumably) millions (or even billions?) of nano-bots that we inject into our bodies. Howe…

Are you implying that we would assign a public /64 subnet to a collection of nanites that were designed to be absorbed after a week in the human body, and then retire that subnet forever? This seems like an unlikely scenario, but I'll assume it's just an intellectual exercise and take a stab! - Total number of /64 subnets available: 2^64 - Total number of humans in this future: Let's say 16 billion (roughly twice wha…

> Are you implying that we would assign a public /64 subnet to a collection of nanites that were designed to be absorbed after a week in the human body, and then retire that subnet forever?

No, I meant it as "You can reuse the subnet after 1 week + N" basically.

> it's just an intellectual exercise and take a stab!

Indeed it was, and thanks for conjuring a gratifying answer :)

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#278

Post by Analemma_ »

boredhedgehog wrote: post #256
sylware wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. IPv6 will, finally, enabled the real internet: all p2p protocols will start to work seamlessly. I am thinking a super simple no-dns IP (audio|video) phone protocol listening only on tcp 1 port, new bittorrent like protocol for live streaming, etc. Since IPv6 has been almost everywhere in my country for years: enjoying ssh session everywhere (ipv6 mobile internet)…

> IPv6 will rid us from the abomination of domestic NAT. But won't that also have disadvantages? NAT obscures which natural person is responsible for any given household traffic, which makes user tracking and surveillance harder.

You're kidding yourself if you think NAT was obstructing data collecting and targeting in any way. Browser fingerprinting makes it a complete non-issue.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#279

Post by sylware »

bombcar wrote: post #271
sylware wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An IP is not a global phone number. You cannot port the same "number" from one carrier to another. If we want that, global orgs in charge of the global phone number mapping must coordinate around some slice of the IPv6 address space (what they already do with international roaming of phone numbers). This will be very hard to operate safely, very probably.

There remain the trappings of what was designed to be static IPv6 addresses that would dynamically route to the network that device was - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_IP I don't know if it's actually being used. IIRC since then everything has moved to a higher layer.

I cannot tell neither how things would work in that IPv6 address slice, but "peer synced" sub-slices would be needed.

Re: Tell HN: Hacker News now supports IPv6

#280

Post by nottorp »

orangeboats wrote: post #184
kuon wrote: post #182

I am so surprised by the hate for IPv6 in this thread. I have been deploying IPv6 for more than ten years and it really improve many situations (beside larger addresses). I have to admit, there is a learning curve. But I want to encourage everybody involved in configuring computers to learn. Also I want to rent about Cisco not using /64 for link local by default, thus being incompatible with BSD systems. Link local m…

>I am so surprised by the hate for IPv6 in this thread. I find that HN views IPv6 noticeably more harshly than many other communities I have been a part of (e.g. networking subreddits and gaming communities). I am curious of the reason behind this.

Because a lot of us have non simple networks that are also not complex enough to warrant whatever the enterprise design commitee designed for ipv6.
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