Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 1001 posts

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#271

Post by nirvdrum »

newsclues wrote: post #220
jacquesm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh absolutely it is. But all app store developers are complicit in enabling that monopoly. What should happen is that all app store developers withdraw their apps until Apple sees the light. But that won't happen because every app store developer will be pitted against their competition in a race to the bottom who will accept the highest fees that Apple is going to impose and sooner or later you'll be back at that 30…

“Solidarity is what drives change” Sounds like commie bullshit.

Organized labor has effected plenty of change, both directly and indirectly. Safer working conditions, 40 hour work weeks, sick time, pay raises, etc.. Companies without unionized employees are incentivized to offer reasonable work conditions and benefits to stave off unionization. This has all happened under capitalism.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#272

Post by lolinder »

makeitdouble wrote: post #253
lolinder wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The details of the process of getting approval for links may be out of line, but the idea that simply using a different payment processor would remove the entirety of the 30% commission was always a pipe dream. Apple has always been adamant that the fee is for the service of using the App Store, not the payment processor, and that you owe them for sales made regardless of whether they're able to take the money direct…

＞ the idea that simply using a different payment processor would remove the entirety of the 30% commission was always a pipe dream The idea wasn't to use third party processors as an argument to evade the fee, it was the other way round. Front and center Epic wanted to get rid of or strongly lower the fee, and as a consequence developers would probably have had to use other processors. The judge shut this down by leg…

Right, it wasn't Epic's pipe dream, but somehow that's the idea that got popularized on HN and elsewhere. For example, just a few hours ago the comments on the thread about the Supreme Court's declining to hear the case [0] were mostly operating on the assumption that developers would now be able to offer a substantial discount for people selling off the App Store.

That only works if developers actually could save significant money by selling through alternate storefronts, which was never going to be possible because Apple was always going to pick something approximately market rate as their valuation for the payment processor portion of the fee.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39014642

For example:

> It seems easy to kind of shrug at this, but this does seem quite significant because of many mobile apps are 'free to play.' Apple pocketing 30% of all of these transactions, and forcing users/devs to go through Apple, is a major part of its revenue. And all of those apps now have the option to direct users to alternative payment methods, where they can both charge users substantially less and make more profit doing so.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#274

Post by issung »

nsagent wrote: post #160

I've got to say, Apple definitely lost me on this one. This feels bad enough that despite having an iPhone since the iPhone 3G, I'll likely jump ship when I need to upgrade unless they make a U-turn on this move. EDIT: Wow, getting downvoted for saying Apple is losing me as a customer with this move is surprising. I don't understand how people on Hacker News of all places want conformity of thought. I switched from u…

Forgive the unrelated reply, but can you actually downvote on this site? I only have an up arrow next to everything.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#275

Post by threeseed »

MBCook wrote: post #52
karlshea wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's a direct comparison. Back then sure you could get shareware but mostly the market was paid boxed software. I can't find a direct source but I remember hearing brick-and-mortar retailers would take even more than 30% of sales. And Visual Studio sure wasn't free. Everything was different though, you'd be paying for your OS upgrades too which doesn't happen on iOS. I agree 30% is crazy, but the marke…

Throughout the multiple trials that has been a big argument Apple makes. That especially for smaller companies their cut is drastically lower than it would have been for retail software on shelves. Which conveniently ignores the fact that you can buy software for digital download on the Internet for significantly lower overhead. But they keep arguing it.

> buy software for digital download on the Internet for significantly lower overhead

But you are looking at that through the lens of an end user.

As a developer, Apple's total acquisition cost i.e. 15/30% is far less than what it costs me to acquire customers through other channels e.g. Paid Ads, Referral etc.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#276

Post by MBCook »

turquoisevar wrote: post #247
lolinder wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was always what the outcome was going to look like. People have been talking ever since the ruling as though dodging Apple as a payment processor was going to magically exempt developers from the full 30% fee, but that was never going to happen and it was never the intention of the ruling. Apple argued from the very beginning that the 30% was its fee for running the App Store, marketing the apps, and storing and…

Yeah, the amazement amongst people here on HN amazes me. The district court was crystal clear about this in their judgment, which at the time caused quite some consternation. The appellate court then affirmed the same and even clarified more clearly that it’s completely fine because it primarily is the mechanic Apple gets payment for the use of their IP and, secondly, their services that encompass more than just paym…

Now that the Supreme Court has put this issue to rest by refusing to weigh in, will the appellate court now take that until the district court to figure out those kind of details?

Or will everything stand as it is at the moment with figuring out specific details that Apple must abide by that haven’t already been listed up to future lawsuits to determine?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#277

Post by awinter-py »

bradgessler wrote: post #54

Am I getting this right? Say I use Stripe as my payment processor. Stripe takes 2.9% + $0.30, then Apple takes 27% so I'm at 29.9% + $0.30 being taken out of however much I charge for my app? For a $10 app, $0.30 is 3% putting the fee at 32.9%. For the privilege of paying 2.9% more, my users get to see a scary privacy message and when I bill the customer a year later for a subscription, there's a 20-30% chance that t…

baller move for stripe would be to discount the 30%, get all IAP traffic, and then stop paying

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#278

Post by nsagent »

issung wrote: post #274
nsagent wrote: post #160

I've got to say, Apple definitely lost me on this one. This feels bad enough that despite having an iPhone since the iPhone 3G, I'll likely jump ship when I need to upgrade unless they make a U-turn on this move. EDIT: Wow, getting downvoted for saying Apple is losing me as a customer with this move is surprising. I don't understand how people on Hacker News of all places want conformity of thought. I switched from u…

Forgive the unrelated reply, but can you actually downvote on this site? I only have an up arrow next to everything.

See https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented#downvo...

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#279

Post by nickloewen »

issung wrote: post #274
nsagent wrote: post #160

I've got to say, Apple definitely lost me on this one. This feels bad enough that despite having an iPhone since the iPhone 3G, I'll likely jump ship when I need to upgrade unless they make a U-turn on this move. EDIT: Wow, getting downvoted for saying Apple is losing me as a customer with this move is surprising. I don't understand how people on Hacker News of all places want conformity of thought. I switched from u…

Forgive the unrelated reply, but can you actually downvote on this site? I only have an up arrow next to everything.

You can downvote comments after accruing a certain amount of karma (see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html)

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#280

Post by foooorsyth »

justinclift wrote: post #108
judge2020 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll probably need to be another lawsuit since it's in the developer agreement. Via user lolinder ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39020745 ): > Apple is already pretty clear in its developer agreement [0] that the 30% commission is for "its services as Your agent and/or commissionaire" (Schedule 2 3.4), not for its services as a payment processor. They are contractually allowed to take the 30% fee out of paym…

> It'll probably need to be another lawsuit since it's in the developer agreement. Mind you, you can be blocked from doing needed Apple dev stuff (eg sign binaries, etc) until you've manually logged into your Apple account and clicked on the "I accept" button whenever they change terms. This happened to us (sqlitebrowser.org) in recent weeks, as our CI just stopped working one day. It turns out there was a new develo…

>There's literally no choice but to sign the things - regardless of terms - if you want your users to have software that runs.

This gets to be a real nightmare in large organizations with multiple Apple Dev Portal admins, some of which may not even be authorized to sign legal documents on behalf of the company.

Post reply on HN