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Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

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Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#271

Post by pluto_modadic »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #185

From reading other comments here, my opinion might be unpopular. But I think she was extremely rude to those two people who were not required to be as empathetic as they were. (I also don't like people who get angry at waiters for faults of the restaurant)

a waiter is a frontline employee, who has to do what "the man" wants, the crummy, unseen company, which can screw them over at any moment

HR is "the man", coming to screw them, the reaper incarnate.

sometimes judges can be such dicks whispering under their breaths that it makes violent defendents leap onto the stand to try to assault their pompus jerk asses.

just because you're passing judgement doesn't mean you should be an overt arse about it.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#272

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

i don't see what's the big deal here and why she felt like having to put her entitled attitude on display. laying off is like breaking up. no matter how you do it it's always wrong. at least with laying off the process can be greased with a little money and a good reference. and i'm pretty sure she'll get both. instead she gets all railed up about it as if she just discovered that life is not fair. meaning: yes, fight for your right but don't get too hung up about the ethics and details like whether the boss is there or not because who cares?

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#273

Post by rollulus »

SandraBucky wrote: post #261

Why is this discussion not reaching the from front-page? Is it a taboo here to discuss about organizing/unionizing?

I find that suspicious too. I only found this post by using the search functionality. There are other cloudflare related posts as well not showing up, with 200+ pts as well.

Although the HN ranking algo is mysterious, this is different from how it typically works in my experience.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#274

Post by koonsolo »

ChumpGPT wrote: post #134

I'm an old guy, advice for young people. Companies do not give a fuck about you. Companies do not appreciate any sacrifice you make for them, so make none. Never do more but just what they pay you for. You owe them 40 hours and they only owe you a paycheck. You're employment is temporary. HR is there to protect the company from you. Save your money, Network and have a plan b.

Another old guy here. At it's core you are right, but it's also a very negative way to view the situation. Here is how I view it:

You are selling your service to the company, so it's a win-win on both ends. You deliver a service and get paid for it. If you can't deliver, or they don't need your service, or can't pay for it, there is no win-win anymore.

I'm a freelancer, but even when I was employed I looked at it like this. It's the best way to neither live in fantasy land where "your" company is your family, nor have a negative view on companies.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#275

Post by rcarmo »

judge2020 wrote: post #87
IvyMike wrote: post #25

I get why Brittany's mad: Cloudflare appears to be handling this about as bad as possible. But those two HR randos aren't gonna have anything worthwhile to say, either. I don't want to be judgmental of Brittany because it's a sucky call to have to take. But my recommendation in this situation is to say "I disagree with that assessment of my performance, but I understand you are terminating my employment. What details…

Presumably these Cloudflare HR employees do have the data for why this person was laid off, and they might even have it in front of them, but yeah legally they can't give them any more specifics. As far as I'm aware, evidence of good performance could be used to strengthen their case to collect unemployment (if Cloudflare tries to fight Brittany's unemployment claim); it could also be used as evidence in a discrimina…

She does point out it was holiday season. Sales slow down.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#276

Post by boh_grey »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #269
boh_grey wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone very close to an ex-CF employee, I can state with authority that the company does very little to help it's employees come up to speed. Their training process is essentially a bunch of CF employees doing unimpressive powerpoint presentations. Their internal documentation is a huge Wiki and it's not really very well maintained. Their internal config management system is absolute trash and I'm convinced that…

That would surprise me. Based on contact with their support + social media + communication here + being a customer + discord + attending, although infrequently, community calls. Since you posted the link and I see very little history here, I can't acknowledge your claim of authority yet and I can only suspect, without certainty, personal grievances or conflicts of interests. Additionally, I find the correlation betwe…

I didn't get to be a (retired) 100x engineer by posting on HN. I don't post stories regularly but did in this case because a friend sent me the link.

I did post it to warn others about CF.

> Since you posted the link and I see very little history here, I can't acknowledge your claim of authority yet and I can only suspect, without certainty, personal grievances or conflicts of interests.

Suspect away. When someone you care for is treated badly by a corporation I think that's fair game to relay to others and amplify the message.

But since we're on the subject:

> Based on contact with their support + social media + communication here + being a customer + discord + attending, although infrequently, community calls.

Maybe you just don't want to believe a corporation you believe in so strongly could be awful to their employees or have an internal culture that sees individuals as disposable.

Maybe it's you that has the undisclosed conflict of interest. Maybe CF cares about what HN thinks of it.

Boy I sure hope so.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#277

Post by wickedsickeune »

Timber-6539 wrote: post #210

Would rather get this type of a call from an AI bot than those two soulless creatures.

I genuinely believe the experience would be better if Chat GPT was answering. At least if it said "I don't know why you got terminated" it would be absolutely honest.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#278

Post by CornishPasty »

jbverschoor wrote: post #157
oblio wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's January and she said she was hired in August. How's them math skillz doin'?

I didn’t see/hear that part. I heard December. Maybe she was hired before December but wasn’t active yet You’re right. She starts with that

She says that she was doing a 3 month "ramp" - which I can assume is the induction period. She'd only got out of the ramp and started "proper" at the beginning of December, which is what (I think) you heard

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#279

Post by indrora »

Aurornis wrote: post #31
danpalmer wrote: post #24

This is why we need unions. Layoffs are unfortunately, sometimes, necessary. But when they happen, it's important that the right people are chosen, for the right reasons (whether that's performance based, voluntary, protecting certain groups, ensuring fairness, etc). That requires collective bargaining by representatives who are able to assess and change the criteria, and who are able to negotiate for better outcomes…

The person in this TikTok admits to having closed zero sales. They're also one of the most junior people on the team (4.5 months). They would be among the first to go under union rules, too. Unions are often worse at prioritizing things like tenure over performance, if anything. But even under those rules she was one of the most junior people. There is basically no situation where a union would have prioritized this…

> The person in this TikTok admits to having closed zero sales. They're also one of the most junior people on the team (4.5 months).

You didn't listen to what they said:

* One month at speed * Three months of ramp

Generally, ramp time in roles like this persons would involve tailing and listening to active areas, training for the specifics of the product that you're selling, etc.

We then hit December, wherein

* Nobody makes big spend choices in December. It's a dead month for sales unless you're in Retail selling toys and gadgets. Sales closing in December are fucking golden geese. * They had one possible account land pull out at the last moment. Why? Unsure. * Assuming this person is telling the truth, their management indicated they were a high performer overall.

Just like very few companies hire in December, very few companies make big spending choices at the end of the calendar year.

Unions can do things like

* Argue that the state of the dismissal is contrived ("you didn't sell anything in the week nobody buys things") * Create mandatory minimum times of employment (e.g. "you can't lay off someone who has only recently joined" or "you can't lay off someone who moved > 100mi for the job until they have had at least one primary performance review")

Unions fight the nebulous "performance metrics" that HR is citing here.

Re: Cloudflare employee posts layoff call with HR and goes viral [video]

#280

Post by ralmidani »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #185

From reading other comments here, my opinion might be unpopular. But I think she was extremely rude to those two people who were not required to be as empathetic as they were. (I also don't like people who get angry at waiters for faults of the restaurant)

“I can’t say anything to change the way you’re feeling” doesn’t sound like empathy to me.
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