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Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

bloomberg.com

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Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this myth come from? Looks it's about 10% battery degradation after 200K miles. Tesla is rating their batteries for 300K to 500K miles. Most American company ICE cars are scrapped by then. Not to mention all the ICE related maintenance costs over that time like oil changes, transmission fluid, timing belts, hoses, etc. etc. You can look at 6 to 10 year Model S cars.

It's not a myth at all, and Tesla's "rating" is a lie. Look at data on Prius battery packs and what Toyota rates them for(100-150k). I understand I'm comparing a hybrid to an EV, but there is much more data and I actually trust Toyota. Buying an EV with 100k miles and the original battery pack for 20k is a bad idea.

Lithium-ion battery lifetimes are based on charge-discharge cycles.

The Prius battery is far smaller (about 5-10x smaller) than a Tesla battery, so it is cycling charge / discharge far more often.

So you'd expect the same quality battery to last 5-10x less miles in a Prius than a Tesla driving the same distance. It's likely that Tesla's investment in battery quality and active temperature controls mean the Tesla battery is also treated better and higher quality.

Topping that battery up with a generator in the Prius complicates things, both reducing kWh used per mile (some from generator) but also allowing a discharge - recharge cycle to occur multiple times in the same trip.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#272
post #267

This is due to high body damage repair costs and has nothing to do with repairing an electric powertrain: >Let me share a bit more context on the damage equation. First, while conventional maintenance on electric vehicles remained lower relative to comparable ICE vehicles in Q3, higher collision and damage repairs on EVs continue to weigh on our results and negatively impacted EBITDA. For context, collision and damag…

where a car is salvaged, we must crystallize at once any difference between our carrying value and the market value of that car Hang on though, this part has nothing to do with repair costs. This just sounds like an accounting issue, right? If anything I would expect this to benefit Hertz since they could write off the higher loss in their taxes immediately, instead of waiting until future years to write the value of…

You may have discovered one of many reasons Hertz has been skirting with bankruptcy...

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#273
post #267

This is due to high body damage repair costs and has nothing to do with repairing an electric powertrain: >Let me share a bit more context on the damage equation. First, while conventional maintenance on electric vehicles remained lower relative to comparable ICE vehicles in Q3, higher collision and damage repairs on EVs continue to weigh on our results and negatively impacted EBITDA. For context, collision and damag…

where a car is salvaged, we must crystallize at once any difference between our carrying value and the market value of that car Hang on though, this part has nothing to do with repair costs. This just sounds like an accounting issue, right? If anything I would expect this to benefit Hertz since they could write off the higher loss in their taxes immediately, instead of waiting until future years to write the value of…

I would imagine the difference would manifest itself in higher insurance rates. You can't just "write off more value" for free.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#274

Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? Ho…

Yup. I own a Tesla and it's been a great car. I charge it at home, and I know how the supercharging network works.

I've been OFFERED electric rentals in:

* Tromsø Norway (on a roadtrip through the Lofoten)

* Nelson NZ

* Brisbane AU

The reality is, when I rent a car on vacation, I'm typically doing more miles per day than when I'm at home. That's because I'm not sitting at work 9 hours a day! Plus, I don't know their charging situation. Even if it WAS Tesla, no doubt these places have fewer Superchargers per capita than California (even though of course Norway has a TON of good EV charging). I have no idea if I can charge at my (multiple!) homes throughout the trip.

I'm already dealing with the cognitive load of a different country, a different currency, often a foreign language, different driving standards (maybe on the other side of the road). Finding places to stay and eat. I don't need one more chore!

To put it simply: An EV is more convenient as our primary car, full stop. An EV would be less convenient as a rental car while on vacation.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#275
post #137

I rented a Tesla from Hertz once in Houston and the whole experience was terrible. Got to the counter and the agent first suggested that I take a gas car for $25/day. I was confused because that was so cheap, although the Tesla was already heavily discounted. Apparently, this was $25/day above what I had paid for the model 3 and it was for a compact economy car. I stuck with the Tesla. The agent warned me that repair…

Strongly recommend Turo. I tried it recently after a similarly terrible experience with Hertz. Never going to turn back to traditional car rental companies -- it's so much easier, saves you significant time, and is (sometimes) cheaper.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#276
post #208

Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? Ho…

FWIW I rented an electric volvo in november and its built in map (displayed by default even if you weren't using its nav system, which I did not) displayed charger sites. As it happened my hotel had a charger in the parking garage and the valets plugged my car in for me. One anecdote does not data make, and I didn't know at the time of reservation that my hotel would be adequately equipped.

> my hotel had a charger in the parking garage and the valets plugged my car in for me

So they just put the charging fee on your bill with the little bottles of gin from the minibar? I'm sure hotel power is reasonably priced...

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#277

This is due to high body damage repair costs and has nothing to do with repairing an electric powertrain: >Let me share a bit more context on the damage equation. First, while conventional maintenance on electric vehicles remained lower relative to comparable ICE vehicles in Q3, higher collision and damage repairs on EVs continue to weigh on our results and negatively impacted EBITDA. For context, collision and damag…

The title says "EVs" but really it's "Teslas" they're not selling their Polestars.

Had an awesome experience with a Hertz Polestar in Italy last summer.

The trim was basic, but the suspension was superior to a Tesla, especially on Italian roads.

Road noise was average at highway speeds with the cheaper trim.

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#278

Not sure about the economics for the rental companies, but for a consumer, there are practical reasons why electric aren't quite as attractive. When you rent a car, more than likely you will be in unfamiliar territory. So it seems that it just adds to the stress of travel and yet another thing you have to pay attention to. Will my hotel have charging spots? Will I be able to charge at the client site I'm visiting? Ho…

[deleted]

Re: Hertz to sell 20k EVs in shift back to gas-powered cars

#280

This is due to high body damage repair costs and has nothing to do with repairing an electric powertrain: >Let me share a bit more context on the damage equation. First, while conventional maintenance on electric vehicles remained lower relative to comparable ICE vehicles in Q3, higher collision and damage repairs on EVs continue to weigh on our results and negatively impacted EBITDA. For context, collision and damag…

Is there a reason why body damage on an EV would cost more to repair?
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