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Signs that it's time to leave a company

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271–280 of 354 posts

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#271
This is one of my few favorited comments on HN. It's a great rubric on how to regularly give your company a "performance review", and how to decide if the company has failed and it's time to leave.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20609978

Of course everyone's ability to leave might differ, depending on personal circumstances and job market. But at least it's good to know what you do and don't like about your job, and what you want to try to improve, if leadership is amenable.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#272
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the unemployment rate for software developers? Still basically zero. It’s never moved, but for some reason people seem to think it has. That’s weird.

WSJ reported a few days ago that IT job growth is down year-over-year from 279,000 to 700. It's not contraction yet, but it is effectively the end of a long run of rapid growth. https://www.wsj.com/articles/it-employment-grew-by-just-700-...

Yes, the number of unfilled tech positions has stopped growing but the absolute number is still in the hundreds of thousands in the US alone. There is no shortage of jobs. Maybe there will be, but there isn’t and hasn’t been.

Edited: typo “IS” to “US”.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#273
post #81
post #21

Signs that I've seen before leaving: * There are more VPs than there are restrooms. * The free coffee and soda is no more. * Engineers are co-opted as salespeople ("... and why is the project late?").

There's nothing wrong with occasionally pulling in engineers to help salespeople with writing proposals or participating in sales calls. Smaller companies can't afford to have sales engineers as dedicated specialist positions.

Heck I wish they'd involve us more often at our place.

After all, it's us devs who are left with the burden when it's discovered a few days before go-live that sales has sold something we don't have because they missed some nuances in what the customer said or similar.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#274
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pre-2023 thinking and early-career thinking. Without job title growth, eventually everyone plateaus. There's only so much any company is willing to pay a non-manager individual contributor worker bee. Early in your career you can go from say $45K to $60K to $100K like it's nothing, but the more you job hop, it'll start looking more like $110K -> $120K -> $125K -> $128K and so on, asymptotically approaching your…

A lot of tech companies have figured out pushing ICs into management is counter-productive and have IC tracks with very high ceilings. Until you're a principal/fellow pulling down $500k+ you haven't hit the IC asymptote yet. And yes this exists outside of just FAANG. The corollary is that you often will have to stick around more than a year or two to get promoted into the senior+ ranks due to the scope of work and ac…

2 of the 3 places I've worked (non FAANG) did not have IC tracks that went past senior or if they did it was 1 position that was not promoted internally and it never opened up again.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#275

I have worked primarily from home for most of the last 25 years at several companies. I joined Apple during the pandemic and worked from home for the first 18 months but left Apple about 15 months ago for Amazon, in part, because of the increasing RTO pressure at Apple. The Apple RTO policy has only gotten stupider since I left. Unfortunately about a year after I joined Amazon chose to adopt an RTO policy as well. It…

If you're able to share, I'm curious what you mean by "Apple RTO policy has only gotten stupider"? Isn't it still 3 days in-office (or 4 days for some teams)?

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#276

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

I've all but given up on finding anything in Canada even after opening up the possibility of on-site or hybrid. Was hoping it would allow me to tap into a market that not everyone was applying for, but surprisingly it's still a dead-end. I don't think it's an unreasonable ask if you're not fresh out of school to have a somewhat dignified space to get your work done in. In-house lawyers get a private space, oftentimes accountants, sales people, but people who write code are relegated to a big open space or a cube of soul-crushing greyness.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misread my comment, or perhaps our definition of high volumes of code is different. Perhaps junior means something different. I also suspect what I consider "good communication" you consider "micromanagement". I like reading and talking about what my colleagues are doing every day. I'm interested. I learn new things, and sometimes I teach others a trick or two. Sometimes I tell them I don't like something…

Make more granular tasks with clear acceptance criteria. If the developer doesn't understand the task, suggest writing a design document. Build trust so that developers reach out to you as they get blocked. Try to make people explain their approach in clear terms and discourage trial and error.

Yep, agreed. Granular tasks of about a day or two, and just talking about it is easier than more process and paperwork. You should try it!

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#278
post #232

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

> I feel like I never know how to contact someone and can never expect a quick reply MS Teams and similar products have a color-coding scheme (green - active, yellow - inactive, probably afk, red - busy, white - offline) that solves that quite effectively (maybe even too much). Have you tried it, and if so, in what sense did you find it lacking? Also, if instant gratification is what you're craving, then I'm not sure…

Exactly. It is basically never okay to expect a quick reply, whether you are working remotely or in office. Doing that just fragments that person's attention and makes them get out of flow.

A long time ago when everyone was in office, a cultural norm was that if someone was wearing headphones, regardless of whether they were listening to anything, they do not welcome interruptions. That cultural norm was gradually eroded during the pandemic.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#279

I have worked primarily from home for most of the last 25 years at several companies. I joined Apple during the pandemic and worked from home for the first 18 months but left Apple about 15 months ago for Amazon, in part, because of the increasing RTO pressure at Apple. The Apple RTO policy has only gotten stupider since I left. Unfortunately about a year after I joined Amazon chose to adopt an RTO policy as well. It…

If you're able to share, I'm curious what you mean by "Apple RTO policy has only gotten stupider"? Isn't it still 3 days in-office (or 4 days for some teams)?

The degree to which it is enforced, managers being required to enforce the policy, and to which compliance is used as a measure in performance reviews have all increased and, as you mention, some teams have gone to 4 days with pressure to exceed the minimum three days. At least one person I've spoken with indicated that their promotion was delayed until they could get their RTO compliance numbers up.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#280
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other downside: way more coffee breaks and private discussions.

That’s not a downside. That’s part of building and being a team. We’re human, not machines. If you hire the right people, they’ll know when to have a laugh and when to work their ass off.

That very much depends on the person. It might be an upside for you but a downside for me.
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