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'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

aljazeera.com

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Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#271

Post by slibhb »

nicoburns wrote: post #165
iddan wrote: post #136

[flagged]

Other wars are discussed. There have been threads on Russia vs. Ukraine in recent months. Perhaps Israel look bad in the press because they are acting badly. It seems to me that Israel are unambiguously the stronger power in this conflict: they have are much stronger military, and additionally have the backing of the US and a bunch of other nations that would step in were Israeli territory under threat. And they are…

The fact that Israel is stronger doesn't seem especially relevant. We're not talking about a couple kids fighting during recess. The weaker side isn't automatically right and the stronger side can't be expected to moderate its response when we're talking about the murder of ~1000 civilians.

It's also absurd to think Israel should chill out and let the US handle its defense. As if an occasional murder-raid and constant rocket fire is just something Israel should tolerate because, if the Arabs actually invade again, the US will bail them out.

That aside, Israel should do more to avoid civilian casualties. And it should treat captives better than this story indicates.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#272

Post by liorsbg »

random_upvoter wrote: post #207
megaman821 wrote: post #78

Taken in isolation there is nothing wrong with this type of reporting, the IDF should be held to high standards. In the context of the Israeli/Palestine conflict, there is a tendency to hold Israel to a much higher standard and excuse the Palestine side as if they were naive children. I don't see how that could possibly set up any lasting peace. Israel will become more deaf to outsiders, and Palestinians will not be…

[flagged]

Why do you think that?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#273

Post by wahnfrieden »

ido wrote: post #237

Plenty of Palestinians oppose Hamas and want peace and a free Palestinian state according to the '67 borders. These would be the equivalents on the other side.

I posted this perspective previously ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38071749 ) but it was immediately flagged out: https://libcom.org/article/voices-front-line-against-occupat...

>I want you to know something else, which is that the Palestinian Authority and President Mahmoud Abbas do not represent us, the Palestinian people, at all. We reject authority and we reject Abbas and all his ministers. I do not know whether you have heard of the security coordination agreement between the Zionist occupation and the Palestinian Authority. Years ago, the Palestinian Authority concluded an agreement under which it would serve the occupying entity in terms of security. That is, all the young Palestinian activists who fight the Zionist occupation in one way or another and the occupation cannot arrest them, the Palestinian Authority pursues them, arrests them, and hands them over to the occupation, and then no one knows the fate of that young man or that girl. These do not represent us, nor any other Palestinian. These are completely rejected in the Palestinian street, but unfortunately they are officially and internationally recognized by the United Nations and supported by the United States of America.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#274

Post by tmnvix »

bluescrn wrote: post #73

Meanwhile, Egypt seems to get a free pass, minimal criticism for keeping its border locked down while being adjacent to a terrible conflict? They could at least let the most vulnerable/sick/injured flee.

The Rafah crossing is one of about half a dozen border crossings in Gaza. Is it really so out of the question that Israel allow civilians to seek refuge within Israel while they wage their campaign? I am fully aware that it would be politically unpopular, but without allowing that to happen I find it hard to take Israeli politicians at their word when they claim they are doing everything to minimise civilian casualties.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#275

Post by nielsbot »

Maken wrote: post #209
noworriesnate wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If the UN was a properly working organization, it would have intervened long ago to force a ceasefire. But we all know that only applies to very poor countries with no economic or political relevance.

I am sad and angry that the US was the sole vetoer of the most recent attempt. Also sad that Israel's vengeful assault on the people of Gaza is enabled and funded by the US.

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#276

Post by dang »

anovick wrote: post #229
lesuorac wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the cartels have never kidnapped an american citizen or killed DEA agents?

AFAIK cartel gang members by the border of US aren't taught from young age that all US citizens are demons that stole something that belongs to them, and that their goal in life is to kill as many americans as possible. They also don't obtain and launch thousands of rockets at US cities, or go on 3,000-men raid of US cities by the border for the main objective of killing, hurting, kidnapping and instilling fear into…

As I explained in the pinned comment at the top (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38616662) and my other posts in this thread, comments in this thread must not be in the spirit of battle, but rather of something more spacious within ourselves. It's not always possible to find that (for many legitimate reasons), but in that case it's best to refrain from posting until one can.

I'm afraid your comments in this thread are crossing out of that and back in to the spirit of battle. This is 100% understandable and I get it, but we need something else in this discussion.

The same goes for some of the commenters arguing against your position—my moderation point here is certainly not about agreeing with them and disagreeing with you (I add this because I know it can all too easily feel that way).

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#277

Post by kamikazeturtles »

baz00 wrote: post #213
kamikazeturtles wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Palestinian people and cause has both Muslims and Christians. Most zionists are secular Jewish people. This isn't about religion, but, land.

Hamas statements have said it's about killing Jews and it being the moral duty of Palestinians to do that and sacrifice their children to the cause. It's religious in at least one direction. It was about land once. I suspect, to throw the exact level of thinking on the table by these people, about as worthy as a meme at this point.

Any source for Hamas saying it wants to kill Jews. I read it was in their charter but they removed it ~20 years ago

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#278

Post by nielsbot »

edanm wrote: post #244
rich_sasha wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is good reason to hold Israel to a higher standard. It is by many metrics one of the most sophisticated states in the whole world. It has one of the highest fractions of people with higher education, it is a highly innovative economy. It is the second largest country of origin for NASDAQ stocks - US being the first one - despite being small by numbers at around 10m people. Whereas the Palestinian territ…

I completely agree that Israel should be held (and hold itself) to a higher standard than Hamas. I think one thing Israelis... dislike... is that often Israel is held to higher standards than every other country on Earth , is held to impossible standards. And when it falls short of those standards - it is considered proof that Israel is evil.

Every other country? Which standards are you talking about?

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#279

Post by [deleted] »

kamikazeturtles wrote: post #204
mupuff1234 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically that seems quite improbable as Jews are only 0.2% of the worlds population vs the Arab and Muslim world (which majority supports Palestinians) Edit: not to mention the CCP and Russia taking an anti Israel stance as well, both known to conduct massive online campaigns to align with their own agendas.

There are a lot of zionist christians and publications are much safer when reporting from a pro-Israel bias. Most muslims don't speak english so if a muslim is commenting about this topic, they're probably one of the few million in one of the english speaking countries.

[deleted]

Re: 'Like we were lesser humans': Gaza boys, men recall Israeli arrest, torture

#280

Post by adhamsalama »

bluescrn wrote: post #73

Meanwhile, Egypt seems to get a free pass, minimal criticism for keeping its border locked down while being adjacent to a terrible conflict? They could at least let the most vulnerable/sick/injured flee.

Israel controls who gets in and out from Egypt to Palestine and when/how many aid trucks get it. Now imagine how much they control Palestine.
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