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Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

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Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this problem needs to be solved at a higher level, and in fact Bard is doing exactly that. The model itself generates its output, and then higher-level systems can fact check it. I've heard promising things about feeding back answers to the model itself to check for consistency and stuff, but that should be a higher level function (and seems important to avoid infinite recursion or massive complexity stemming…

I'm not a fan of current approaches here. "Chain of thought" or other approaches where the model does all its thinking using a literal internal monologue in text seem like a dead end. Humans do most of their thinking non-verbally and we need to figure out how to get these models to think non-verbally too. Unfortunately it seems that Gemini represents no progress in this direction.

> "Chain of thought" or other approaches where the model does all its thinking using a literal internal monologue in text seem like a dead end. Humans do most of their thinking non-verbally and we need to figure out how to get these models to think non-verbally too.

Insofar as we can say that models think at all between the input and the stream of tokens output, they do it nonverbally. Forcing the structure of reduce some of it to verbal form short of the actual response-of-concern does not change that, just as the fact that humans reduce some of their thought to verbal form to work through problems doesn't change that human thought is mostly nonverbal.

(And if you don't consider what goes on between input and output thought, than chain of thought doesn't force all LLM thought to be verbal, because only the part that comes out in words is "thought" to start with in that case -- you are then saying that the basic architecture, not chain of thought prompting, forces all thought to be verbal.)

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#272
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of non-tech ppl I've heard directly reference ChatGPT now is absolutely shocking. The problem is that a lot of those people will take ChatGPT output at face value. They are wholly unaware that of its inaccuracies or that it hallucinates. I've seen it too many times in the relatively short amount of time that ChatGPT has been around.

So you're saying we need a Ministry of Truth to protect people from themselves? This is the same argument used to suppress "harmful" speech on any medium.

I've gotten to the point where I want "advertisment" stamped on anything that is, and I'm getting to the point I want "fiction" stamped on anything that is. I have no problem with fiction existing. It can be quite fun. People trying to pass fiction as fact is a problem though. Trying to force a "fact" stamp would be problematic though, so I'd rather label everything else.

How to enforce it is the real sticky wicket though, so it's only something best discussed at places like this or while sitting around chatting while consuming

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#273

That's not the only thing wrong. Gemini makes a false statement in the video, serving as a great demonstration of how these models still outright lie so frequently, so casually, and so convincingly that you won't notice, even if you have a whole team of researchers and video editors reviewing the output. It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it. You simply can't rely on them when correctn…

>It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it.

I loved it when the lawyers got busted for using a hallucinating LLM to write their briefs.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#274

That's not the only thing wrong. Gemini makes a false statement in the video, serving as a great demonstration of how these models still outright lie so frequently, so casually, and so convincingly that you won't notice, even if you have a whole team of researchers and video editors reviewing the output. It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it. You simply can't rely on them when correctn…

This seems to be a common view among some folks. Personally, I'm impartial. Search or even asking other expert human beings are prone to provide incorrect results. I'm unsure where this expectation of 100% absolute correctness comes from. I'm sure there are use cases, but I assume it's the vast minority and most can tolerate larger than expected inaccuracies.

Where did you get the 100% number from? It's not in the original comment, it's not in a lot of similar criticisms of the models.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#275

That's not the only thing wrong. Gemini makes a false statement in the video, serving as a great demonstration of how these models still outright lie so frequently, so casually, and so convincingly that you won't notice, even if you have a whole team of researchers and video editors reviewing the output. It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it. You simply can't rely on them when correctn…

Well this seems like a huge nitpick. If a person said that, you would afford them some leeway, maybe they meant the whole duck, which includes the hollow part in the middle.

As an example, when most people say a balloon's lighter than air, they mean an inflated balloon with hot air or helium, but you catch their meaning and don't rush to correct them.

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#276

That's not the only thing wrong. Gemini makes a false statement in the video, serving as a great demonstration of how these models still outright lie so frequently, so casually, and so convincingly that you won't notice, even if you have a whole team of researchers and video editors reviewing the output. It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it. You simply can't rely on them when correctn…

To be fair, one could describe the duck as being made of air and vinyl polymer, which in combination are less dense than water. That's not how humans would normally describe it, but that's kind of arbitrary; consider how aerogel is often described as being mostly made of air.

Is an aircraft carrier made of a material that is less dense than water?

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#277

Does it matter at all with regards to its AI capabilities though? The video has a disclaimer that it was edited for latency. And good speech-to-text and text-to-speech already exists, so building that part is trivial. There's no deception. So then it seems like somebody is pressing a button to submit stills from a video feed, rather than live video. It's still just as useful. My main question then is about the cup ga…

Even your skeptical take doesn't fully show how faked this was.

> The video has a disclaimer that it was edited for latency.

There was no disclaimer that the prompts were different from what's shown.

> And good speech-to-text and text-to-speech already exists, so building that part is trivial. There's no deception.

Look at how many people thought it can react to voice in real-time - the net result is that a lot of people (maybe most?) were deceived. And the text prompts were actually longer and more specific than what was said in the video!

> somebody is pressing a button to submit stills from a video feed, rather than live video.

Somebody hand-picked images to convey exactly the right amount of information to Gemini.

> Does that mean the model takes short video inputs as well? I'm assuming so

It was given a hand-picked series of still images with the hands still on the cups so that it was easier to understand what cup moved where.

Source for the above: https://developers.googleblog.com/2023/12/how-its-made-gemin...

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#278

That's not the only thing wrong. Gemini makes a false statement in the video, serving as a great demonstration of how these models still outright lie so frequently, so casually, and so convincingly that you won't notice, even if you have a whole team of researchers and video editors reviewing the output. It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it. You simply can't rely on them when correctn…

That's a tricky one though since the question is, is the air inside of the rubber duck part of the material that makes it? If you removed the air it definitely wouldn't look the same or be considered a rubber duck. I gave it to the bot since when taking ALL the material that makes it a rubber duck, it is less dense than water.

If you hold a rubber duck under water and squeeze out the air, it will fill with water and still be a rubber duck. If you send a rubber duck into space, it will become almost completely empty but still be a rubber duck. Therefore, the liquid used to fill the empty space inside it is not part of the duck.

I mean apply this logic to a boat, right? Is the entire atmosphere part of the boat? Are we all on this boat as well? Is it a cruise boat? If so, where is my drink?

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#279

That's not the only thing wrong. Gemini makes a false statement in the video, serving as a great demonstration of how these models still outright lie so frequently, so casually, and so convincingly that you won't notice, even if you have a whole team of researchers and video editors reviewing the output. It's the single biggest problem with LLMs and Gemini isn't solving it. You simply can't rely on them when correctn…

That's a tricky one though since the question is, is the air inside of the rubber duck part of the material that makes it? If you removed the air it definitely wouldn't look the same or be considered a rubber duck. I gave it to the bot since when taking ALL the material that makes it a rubber duck, it is less dense than water.

A rubber duck in a vacuum is still a rubber duck and it still floats (though water would evaporate too quickly in a vacuum, it could float on something else of the same density).

Re: Gemini "duck" demo was not done in realtime or with voice

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, one could describe the duck as being made of air and vinyl polymer, which in combination are less dense than water. That's not how humans would normally describe it, but that's kind of arbitrary; consider how aerogel is often described as being mostly made of air.

Is an aircraft carrier made of a material that is less dense than water?

only if you average it out over volume :P
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