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Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

wsj.com

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Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#271

Post by Rebelgecko »

epc wrote: post #262
xyst wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be cool. Amex support way better than GS that’s for sure. Would suck for retailers though. Amex fees among the highest when compared to other networks and issuing banks. On the consumer side, I tend to see Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling.

It matters a lot less than it used to. With the exception of working on the Olympics I’ve been able to use an Amex for most travel expenses since 2000. What was more of a pain was the lack of EMV chips in US credit cards for a long time.

What did you do for the Olympics?

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#272

Post by epc »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #271
epc wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters a lot less than it used to. With the exception of working on the Olympics I’ve been able to use an Amex for most travel expenses since 2000. What was more of a pain was the lack of EMV chips in US credit cards for a long time.

What did you do for the Olympics?

Was a “webmaster” for the Atlanta and Nagano sites and managed an application development team for Sydney.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#273

Post by spike021 »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #162
spike021 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely use it because my Chase Preferred has more offers/benefits. Mostly these days it's used for Apple payments like iCloud for the extra percent back in cash.

Ah, that is a decent use case. Seems like it would only net you a few bucks more back a year than chase points if you're, say, buying the Apple One Family plan though. I also have both the Apple card and the Chase Reserve and end up using the Chase card exclusively because it has better benefits, and can really probably only recommend the Apple one for people who rarely travel and buy a lot of Apple products. The Cha…

Yeah Chase works out the best for sure. Especially if you manage to get a signup bonus. That's what I did for the Preferred earlier this year and it netted me 80k extra points. Used part of it to get "free" roundtrip economy tickets to Japan from California. Not bad. You're right though that the Apple Card just isn't really that worth it unless you're buying hardware every year, which I do not.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#274

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

spike021 wrote: post #273
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, that is a decent use case. Seems like it would only net you a few bucks more back a year than chase points if you're, say, buying the Apple One Family plan though. I also have both the Apple card and the Chase Reserve and end up using the Chase card exclusively because it has better benefits, and can really probably only recommend the Apple one for people who rarely travel and buy a lot of Apple products. The Cha…

Yeah Chase works out the best for sure. Especially if you manage to get a signup bonus. That's what I did for the Preferred earlier this year and it netted me 80k extra points. Used part of it to get "free" roundtrip economy tickets to Japan from California. Not bad. You're right though that the Apple Card just isn't really that worth it unless you're buying hardware every year, which I do not.

If you have some greater than nominal amount of yearly spend on travel (like $500, seriously) I highly recommend upgrading to the reserve right after your year end bonus (this will maximize your points). Better even if you get an upgrade bonus. You get $300 of the $450 back immediately after you spend it on travel and the extra points will be made back in weeks if not months if you spend on it even a little. I had the preferred for like 6 years because it was the cheapest card with no foreign transaction fees and after upgrading to the reserve this year I am kicking myself for having waited this long. The lounges are meh but the better insurance and more points are killer, plus the one time free global entry is a nice benefit as well if you don’t already have it.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#275

Post by jwr »

jwr wrote: post #194
xyst wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be cool. Amex support way better than GS that’s for sure. Would suck for retailers though. Amex fees among the highest when compared to other networks and issuing banks. On the consumer side, I tend to see Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling.

> On the consumer side, I tend to see Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling. As a B2B SaaS owner, I don't accept Amex, because they make me jump through extra hoops. I process all cards through Braintree, but Amex requires an extra agreement directly with them, and they make the process of signing those agreements really difficult and obnoxious. I have better things to do with my time. I did a…

Lots of replies, and most are misguided, so I'll add:

I am a B2B SaaS business based outside the US. Tax withholding is not applicable between my customers and me, or at least it is not my responsibility. VAT is solved by reverse charge.

I do have payment processing set up (with Braintree). The above AMEX requirements were on top of that — a completely separate procedure, just because AMEX feels different.

As to the W8 BEN discussion, be careful with your biases: it might seem "obvious" to you that everyone needs to comply with whatever IRS requires of US businesses, if you live in the US. But I have customers in 44 countries. If you are American, before you state that something is obviously required, take a look at this (from recent E-mail):

"Self-Certified Filled Form 10F will be required"

"Permanent Account Number or Aadhaar Number of the assessee if allotted"

"Period for which the residential status as mentioned in the certificate referred to in sub-section (4) of section 90 or sub-section (4) of section 90A is applicable"

Still looks obvious? Those are from India, and I'm pretty sure these requirements seem totally obvious to my Indian customers.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#276

Post by traceroute66 »

ericmay wrote: post #260
traceroute66 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amex as not widely accepted. Especially drops when traveling. Only nutters use Amex whilst travelling (or at least non-US nutters) The double-conversion gotcha is a real killer. Everything gets converted back via USD. So for example, if you have a EUR Amex card and you go to the UK, the AMEX flow is: GBP -> USD -> EUR. And they take, IIRC 3% from you on each leg of that double-conversion.

Is that an EU-issued specific phenomenon? Even when I travel to the EU and use Amex (or Apple Card or a number of others) this doesn’t happen. Think it falls under the “no foreign transaction fees” feature set. The only remaining “gotcha” that I run in to is sometimes a shop will try and get you to pay for something at the point of sale in USD instead of the local currency since they can (within reason but exorbitant…

> Is that an EU-issued specific phenomenon?

Not as far as I'm aware. It certainly happens with GBP-issued and having briefly looked at some of the agreements, it happens with various Asian issued cards too.

To clarify:

      - If the transaction is in your "home" currency, you get charged in that.
      - If the transaction is in USD, you get charged in that.
      - Everything else is subject to double-conversion
Example wording below from the GBP card (the last phrase of the last paragraph is the important one). I see they no longer charge double-fees, but you will still loose out on the double currency conversion because there will be a double-spread on there:

     If we receive a transaction or refund for processing in a foreign currency, we'll convert it into Pounds Sterling on the date it's processed (which may be different to the date of the transaction or refund).

     This means that the exchange rate used may differ from the rate that applied on the date of your transaction or refund. Exchange rate fluctuations can be significant.

     If the transaction or refund is in U.S. Dollars, we'll convert it directly into Pounds Sterling. In all other cases, we'll convert it into U.S. Dollars first and then into Pounds Sterling but we'll only charge one non-sterling transaction fee.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#277

Post by atombender »

hagy wrote: post #231
adastra22 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Vanguard could collapse from the inside because some C-level officer was dipping into customer funds to cover some bad investment, and everyone takes a haircut on the holdings. On top of the drop in market value because most vanguard customers invest in vanguard funds, which suddenly become a toxic asset. Your "safe" money market asset is considered equal and paid out pro-rata, sharing the loss of those mutual fun…

That is impossible because each Vanguard mutual fund is a distinct legal entity. Assets cannot be moved between funds. See Vanguard safety for more details: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Vanguard_safety

Vanguard has about 30 SEC registrants (formally, Delaware Statutory Trusts) for all its US mutual funds. But it has a lot more than 30 funds. For example, VMFXX is managed by Vanguard Money Market Reserves, which also holds VUSXX and the former VMMXX.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#278

Post by catchnear4321 »

zarzavat wrote: post #180
wsc981 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got an Amex card and I think it kinda sucks. Many businesses in Thailand don't accept Amex, I think due to the high fees. At some point I want to change my card (once I can get a credit card from a bank in Thailand, cause my Amex card is from The Netherlands). Would be much better if Apple would get with MasterCard. Based on my experience, no issues anywhere.

Amex’s business proposition to sellers is “we charge high fees but a lot of rich people have Amex so you (the seller) should suck it up and accept us anyway” Sure that works if you’re selling perfume or handbags, but if you’re a family restaurant then rich people and regular people eat the same quantity of food, your margins are low, why accept it? Moreover Amex is pretty rare outside of certain markets. If only fore…

> but if you’re a family restaurant then rich people and regular people eat the same quantity of food

rich people can afford adding two half strips of bacon for almost half again the price of the burger. they can also afford to leave a third of it on the table (daaaang that off-label semaglutide does magic) and then do it all over again tomorrow.

doesn’t mean they will. but they could. they have the means to do so.

that is what amex is advertising, even if it isn’t quite what they provide.

Re: Apple pulls plug on Goldman credit-card partnership

#279

Post by dylan604 »

initplus wrote: post #267
mvc wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Goldman is known for servicing ultra-wealthy and business clients. Consumer finance seems like a completely different beast to me. Tighter margins. Lots of low-paid call center staff and low-paid managers to crack the whip. Folks at Goldman would rather be on the golf course doing shady deals with Trump and Musk.

I guess I still don't understand... how much customer service do you need to run a savings account? How do you even screw that up? Operating a savings account like this one should be close to just picking money off the free money tree. It's wild to think that it costs them more to operate this than the margin they take off it.

You seem to think savings account do not get withdrawn against. If you take the customers cash to put into a T-bill but the customer withdrawals money before the T-bill matures, where do you get their cash from to honor the request?

Not everyone uses offerings in the manner the offerer expects. As software types, this is familiar territory. If you design a thing with only the happy path in mind while never allowing for that path not being followed, you’re in for a very rough time.

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