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The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

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Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#271

Post by mlboss »

11235813213455 wrote: post #68
getpost wrote: post #54

> the researchers say that children may be "evolutionarily primed" to expect exceptionally high levels of physical contact and care, What strikes me here is the phrase, "exceptionally high levels." I imagine children need a "normal" level of care; it's only "exceptionally high" in comparison to the deprived state of family systems in these degenerate times. I often reflect on the understanding in Attachment Theory, w…

I think it's not really about responding to 100% of a child demands, it's maybe even detrimental, and probably better to start teaching him patience, and let him learn what to do in boredom. But the other part is having long and meaningful activities/experiences with a child

You can only do this once they grow older. Babies just need continuous attention. They are incapable of tending to their needs. And they too cute to be ignored :)

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#272

Post by Apocryphon »

rpmisms wrote: post #261
Apocryphon wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't even the point of the movie https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18489573

I fundamentally disagree with that post. The idea of Idiocracy was clear, but it made an additional statement with what it decided to portray as "stupid". Two things can be true at the same time.

> We live in polarized times, which means that for every ‘Idiocracy is a documentary!’ take that goes around, there’s also a critique that argues that Idiocracy is a celebration of eugenics. Have you thought about that interpretation of it? Well, yeah. I mean I’ve actually read that a couple of times. But to me, I thought the opening made it very clear that whatever side you take, nature and nurture are both covered in that. That guy is clearly not a good father. I mean, there’s a kid with a motorcycle in the front yard, and no one’s paying attention to this. He’s just irresponsibly knocking up different woman, and proud of it. It’s not like he’s a good, upstanding role model for the kid. So I think it’s pretty clear here that, whichever one it is, [nature or nurture], there’s some combination of both. I obviously don’t believe in eugenics. I think you could look at it both ways—you have this couple that’s trying to be so responsible that they end up never having kids. Then there’s another couple who just irresponsibly keeps having them and not raising them right. So, you know, if the other couple adopted the other kids. I’m sure they would probably be better off.

https://www.fastcompany.com/3064328/mike-judge-on-the-10th-a...

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#273

Post by Apocryphon »

amrocha wrote: post #269
cornstalks wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as you think it’s annoying to have someone project the statement onto you (though I don’t think that’s what GP was doing), I think it’s annoying you’re telling me it’s a lie that I’m telling myself. I can say with confidence I’m happier with kids than without. I’ve had it both ways, and I can speak to my own experience with honesty far better than you can guess about strangers you don’t know. Don’t take GP’s sta…

And I'm very happy for you. However, what I'm arguing is not "having children makes me happy." It's "having children is above every other kind of happiness." Think about that for a second. What does that statement say to a person without children? To me, I hear that if you don't have children you're literally wasting your life. It's a denial of every other thing people find joy in. Why would you say that? I can only…

Perhaps they are helpfully evangelizing a happiness that someone else may not have considered. Not everyone without children has taken a resolute stand on the matter. Some may be on the fence. Everything is anecdotal anyway so why be so offended?

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#274

Post by touisteur »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #165
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have brainwashed our western minds to make women leave their kids in daycare sometimes weeks after being born. Then we are brainwashed to let kids sleep in a separate room so that mommy can get a good night's rest and be productive at work. We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with. It is insane as one of the best countries in the world we don't let people have kids naturally.

> We need a minimum of 3 years of maternity leave in our country to being with And a year of mandatory evaluation and treatment at a psycologist for various baggage, complexes and plain stupidity that will manifest when raising a child.

I don't know about mandatory, but well funded and expected in that period would go a long way. Child rearing, especially, will surface things you might have not known were there or were so painful. You might also need a variety of help, from talking therapy to cptsd/desensitising. To parents feeling overwhelmed and daily triggered suddenly, in the presence or thinking of your children, you're really not alone, and I strongly advise getting all the help you can, as soon as possible.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#275

Post by XorNot »

argiopetech wrote: post #177
XorNot wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is absolutely no parent who's problem is a child who thinks "I need to eat right now".

Of course there are. That's one of the three states of infants (asleep, hungry, soiled). It's one of the major causes of upset and bad behavior in toddlers. It's obviously the case for children who don't get enough to eat due to deprivation. That doesn't mean my toddler wouldn't prefer ice cream over whatever is for dinner, though.

You're mistaking "hungry" for "wants to eat".

My son during teething was hungry a lot. He was absolutely unwilling to eat for hours till we found whichever thing he was going to tolerate each time (since he's stopped teething for now he's gotten a lot better about it, but you still have to offer food since he doesn't always recognise he is getting hungry).

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#276

Post by david-gpu »

salamandersss wrote: post #245
em-bee wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i do find joy, just not only in the way some people may expect it. (like i enjoy playing with the kids, but i don't enjoy not having much time to do so) i think the primary problem is expectations of others. i may be lucky, that i do have a supportive family and partner that do not push any specific expectations on me, so i am free to find the enjoyment where i like. and a strong part of that for me is that i enjoy t…

Your opinion is perfectly valid. The main expectations I am driven by are to provide the child with adequate resources to thrive, to not neglect the child, and to give them a good footing to navigate this life. I'm not sure if these are expectations that can reasonably be relaxed, I'm just pretty much resigned I'm in for a long slog to provide these for the good of the child at great effort to myself whether it pleas…

I see you, fellow dad. Thank you for having the courage to speak up and for fulfilling your duty as a parent, rain or shine. No judgement from me, only respect.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#277

Post by david-gpu »

amrocha wrote: post #269
cornstalks wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as you think it’s annoying to have someone project the statement onto you (though I don’t think that’s what GP was doing), I think it’s annoying you’re telling me it’s a lie that I’m telling myself. I can say with confidence I’m happier with kids than without. I’ve had it both ways, and I can speak to my own experience with honesty far better than you can guess about strangers you don’t know. Don’t take GP’s sta…

And I'm very happy for you. However, what I'm arguing is not "having children makes me happy." It's "having children is above every other kind of happiness." Think about that for a second. What does that statement say to a person without children? To me, I hear that if you don't have children you're literally wasting your life. It's a denial of every other thing people find joy in. Why would you say that? I can only…

Because of course it is impossible that they are genuinely describing their personal experience where raising children has brought them fulfillment and meaning beyond anything else they have ever done, right?

I think the main communication barrier between childless people and parents is that it's an experience far removed from anything else we do in our lives, so it is very difficult to grasp if you haven't been there.

Parents know that there will be times when raising your kids is the most meaningful thing you've ever done, and there are other times when it's a relentless slog that is grinding you down. It is both, and perhaps it is neither.

As a childless person you may read the above and think I'm stupid or deluded, but I bet most parents will nod in understanding, because they will have experienced something similar.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#278

Post by ido »

amrocha wrote: post #269
cornstalks wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as you think it’s annoying to have someone project the statement onto you (though I don’t think that’s what GP was doing), I think it’s annoying you’re telling me it’s a lie that I’m telling myself. I can say with confidence I’m happier with kids than without. I’ve had it both ways, and I can speak to my own experience with honesty far better than you can guess about strangers you don’t know. Don’t take GP’s sta…

And I'm very happy for you. However, what I'm arguing is not "having children makes me happy." It's "having children is above every other kind of happiness." Think about that for a second. What does that statement say to a person without children? To me, I hear that if you don't have children you're literally wasting your life. It's a denial of every other thing people find joy in. Why would you say that? I can only…

> Why would you say that?

3. I’m merely describing my experience and don’t really mean anything regarding you at all.

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#279

Post by ido »

amrocha wrote: post #268
imetatroll wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western culture no longer seems to appreciate the commitment that is required to raise children. Personally I think people are too self-centered and are too eager to seek hedonism. Whether or not it will be OK long term is to be seen. I have no doubt that if you were to ask the people without kids on their death bed if they wished they had had them, they would say yes.

People in their deathbed also regret working so much but nobody's chomping at the bit to quit their job and become a bum.

Bums exist, so someone must have!

Re: The key to mother and child well-being may be many caregivers

#280

Post by OccamsMirror »

thepasswordis wrote: post #223
conception wrote: post #22

The book Hunt, Gather, Parent touches on this a bit. It takes 3-4 humans, not necessarily adults but cousins and whatnot, to take care of a child. Two? 6-8. Since western societies broke up tight knit communities, the support system for this in the west has been lacking and jerry rigged with tired parents and nannies etc ever since. The reason for the breakup is fun - https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/11/ro…

Western Society seems to be doing pretty well.

Based on the only metric we care about: money.
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