Reflecting on 18 Years at Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#271

Post by praptak » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:51 PM UTC

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #261

eslaught wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was an intern at Google circa 2010, there was a guest lecture from a business professor who described exactly this process. At the end of it, he made a comment like, "Of course none of this will happen to Google. You're too innovative." But literally every single prediction of his came true, and I witnessed some of them happening in front of my own eyes even in just the months that I was there (and certainly i…

> At the end of it, he made a comment like, "Of course none of this will happen to Google. You're too innovative." Yes, but how did everyone listening fail to notice that he winked 3 times in a row, paused silently for 30 seconds and looked disappointed when no one seemed to catch on?

The drummer in the background forgot to do the "ba-dum tsss"

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#272

Post by dilyevsky » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #237

Which companies today are the Google of 20 years ago?

The stuff people say plagued google i’ve seen in much smaller companies in the last few years. It’s not Google it’s the whole damn industry

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#273

Post by kelnos » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

kens wrote: post #6

That post is a very good description of Google and matches my experience at Google (2004-2016), both the good and bad. There is a lot of cynicism and misunderstanding of Google on HN, so hopefully this post will help. (Note: you need to scroll down a bit on the page to get the post.)

> There is a lot of cynicism and misunderstanding of Google on HN

Is there, though? I mean, yes, I am very cynical about Google (and never worked there, so I have no insider information), but this article lines up very well with my assumptions about the company and what happened there over time.

(Of course I can't speak for all HNers...)

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#274

Post by benvolio » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

eslaught wrote: post #123

pardoned_turkey wrote: post #86

Ian's post is pretty incisive, although I've read so many of these over the past 15 years or so. And the prescription is always to go back in time. I don't really think that's possible. When you're a newcomer, a disruptor, the whole point is to be different. You're bold, you have a clarity of purpose, you say things like "we're building a new kind of a company" or "the user comes first." But once you achieve market d…

When I was an intern at Google circa 2010, there was a guest lecture from a business professor who described exactly this process. At the end of it, he made a comment like, "Of course none of this will happen to Google. You're too innovative." But literally every single prediction of his came true, and I witnessed some of them happening in front of my own eyes even in just the months that I was there (and certainly i…

Seems like this is referring to Clayton Christensen’s Where Does Growth Come From? talk:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rHdS_4GsKmg

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#275

Post by downWidOutaFite » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #189

drubio wrote: post #117

> Take Jeanine Banks, for example, who manages the department that somewhat arbitrarily contains (among other things) Flutter, Dart, Go, and Firebase. Her department nominally has a strategy, but I couldn't leak it if I wanted to; I literally could never figure out what any part of it meant, even after years of hearing her describe it. Her understanding of what her teams are doing is minimal at best; she frequently m…

It sounds like the generic complaints of everyone who doesn't like their manager ever and frankly I would have thought twice before attaching my name to a broadside that attacks a former manager by name. But hey, what do I know, I never worked at Google.

Keeping quiet about perceived problems is exactly the kind of toxic political lack of transparency that Ian is calling out here.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#276

Post by kradroy » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:52 PM UTC

znpy wrote: post #251

drubio wrote: post #117

> Take Jeanine Banks, for example, who manages the department that somewhat arbitrarily contains (among other things) Flutter, Dart, Go, and Firebase. Her department nominally has a strategy, but I couldn't leak it if I wanted to; I literally could never figure out what any part of it meant, even after years of hearing her describe it. Her understanding of what her teams are doing is minimal at best; she frequently m…

I noticed that and it's a very strong point. Taking such a strong stance is not something would so light-heartedly, i really wonder what went on to drive this person to write such harsh words about her. Considering the amount of people the author has likely seen over 18 years and how many of them he could have complained about... It must not be a chance it's her specifically .

There's no greater source of professional resentment than suffering under a manager who's incompetent and a narcissist (my summary of his blurb). After 18 years at Google he probably feels safe burning that bridge.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#277

Post by jjiij » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:53 PM UTC

drubio wrote: post #117

> Take Jeanine Banks, for example, who manages the department that somewhat arbitrarily contains (among other things) Flutter, Dart, Go, and Firebase. Her department nominally has a strategy, but I couldn't leak it if I wanted to; I literally could never figure out what any part of it meant, even after years of hearing her describe it. Her understanding of what her teams are doing is minimal at best; she frequently m…

I don't really see how naming the specific individual improved the argument, unless there is true malfeasance, like sexual harassment, I don't think it's ethical to publicly name-and-shame somebody for the crime of being bad at their job.

LOTS of people are bad at their job.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#278

Post by xigency » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:54 PM UTC

SilverBirch wrote: post #234

I think the conclusion is really interesting. Maybe this was just well written, but I was thinking "What should the CEO of Google be pursuing as a strategy", and then he drops the mission statement. I don't know if the mission statement is the best articulation of the goal. But it's a clear goal. And it's a goal that Google aren't pursuing. It's an interesting goal in the context of large language models. Now, more t…

> Well this post turned into a rant...

You aren’t wrong. Frankly, it’s embarrassing. I could throw in a bunch more complaints and the kitchen sink but the point is we should expect better things from these companies and they should expect more from themselves as well.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#279

Post by darajava » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:55 PM UTC

Flutter is such a brilliant tool. Not just the framework, but everything surrounding it. Tooling, the standard of cross compatibility, pub.dev, the Dart language itself, the friendly community… it’s the best developer experience I’ve found and this article makes me really hope that Google pulls through.

Re: Reflecting on 18 Years at Google

#280

Post by hintymad » Wed, Nov 22, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

> Much of these problems with Google today stem from a lack of visionary leadership from Sundar Pichai, and his clear lack of interest in maintaining the cultural norms of early Google

One thing I find bizarre in Google is lack of accountability. If someone builds a lousy product, we are not supposed to criticize it, not even objectively. That's because, well you guessed it, "it hurts feelings". Or per Pichai's words, "let's be thoughtful". So many teams have instead learned to launch failed products to advance their levels in Google.