Let's say I wanted to do a native, or JVM-hosted, version of this. Which toolkits could I turn to?
Light Table - a new IDE concept
271–280 of 315 posts
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Field ( http://openendedgroup.com/field ) is a modern programming environment that embraces most (if not all) of these principles.
As always, the multi-media programming environments are miles ahead and nobody knows about them. Field is amazing. Max/MSP, Pd, et al. are a different paradigm altogether, but have had live editing, documentation a click away, etc. and have been in heavy use for 20+ years.
I've been using Max/MSP lately and while I find the language itself lacking (one example of something I wish I could do is nested lists), the editor is amazing. The live programming is ahead of any normal REPL I've used and the debugger is pretty cool too.
If it had a few extra features it would make it pretty close to my ideal programming environment: a way of (temporarily) disabling selected code; a unit testing mechanism and a way of extracting selected code to a unit test; a visual code diff tool; git integration (especially branches)
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#273- Smallest unit of code is the function. - Able to get instant feedback on code changes. - Multiple editors with just one function in it. Show code in an "area of concern" not just in a file. - The coding environment can show also results, app windows, graphics, other tools. - Can save the configuration of the above. Smalltalkers have been doing this in commercial projects since the 80's. If only we could have commun…
what smalltalk didn't quite do is the instantaneous view of the results of your code changes. Seeing the result of your changes in Light Table is like updating a cell in a spreadsheet. Smalltalk (I'm guessing), would involve switching to the executing window or hitting a play/continue button. A subtle difference, but it takes the immediacy to the next level.
Autotest, which is now built-in to Pharo, will automatically run unit tests relevant to the method you're editing when you save the method, so you can get pretty close. http://magaloma.blogspot.com/2010/06/autotest-for-pharo.html
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#274For years I've been bothered by the fact that we still use ASCII text-based documents to program. Having spent a good deal of time programing in APL, a language that uses symbols extensively, I'd like to think that I saw just how different things could be. Having said that, every time I've looked into graphical programming paradigms they almost always seem to fall apart or get in the way of translating ideas and thou…
Oh wow. I've never used APL but this demo of it always blows me away http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4&feature=youtu...
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Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#275For years I've been bothered by the fact that we still use ASCII text-based documents to program. Having spent a good deal of time programing in APL, a language that uses symbols extensively, I'd like to think that I saw just how different things could be. Having said that, every time I've looked into graphical programming paradigms they almost always seem to fall apart or get in the way of translating ideas and thou…
Oh wow. I've never used APL but this demo of it always blows me away http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xAKttWgP4&feature=youtu...
If APL looks good to you, it may be worth checking out its descendent J: http://www.jsoftware.com/
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Text is still the best way too tell a story and programs are just that: stories. I would say that any language requiring a fancy IDE is doomed.
Comics and movies are pretty good ways to tell stories too. Some stories are better suited to text. Some are not. I'm in the middle of making a comic that makes deep use of color and the relative position of panels on the page to tell its story, for instance. What kind of programs are we missing out on by limiting ourselves to text? What kind of programmers?
Upvoted but I don't know the answers to your questions. Maybe getting more programmers is a good thing. For me, right now the issue is to get better ones, and I doubt having box drawing languages should bring better programmers on the boat.
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#277[deleted]
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#278Reminds me of the design and dynamic visualizations from IntelliPad (written for Microsoft's retired project 'Oslo') with several features from visual studio all incorporated into an elegant interface.
Nice job.
(Although better - this IDE is close enough to IntelliPad that I challenge your statment that it is a "new IDE concept.)
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#279This is great. I'm so happy someone finally started moving in a new direction. I've been thinking along these lines for a long time, but never found the time or energy to actually start implementing anything.
The most important thing is to do away with the concept of a file as a main structural unit in a project.
Re: Light Table - a new IDE concept
#280- Smallest unit of code is the function. - Able to get instant feedback on code changes. - Multiple editors with just one function in it. Show code in an "area of concern" not just in a file. - The coding environment can show also results, app windows, graphics, other tools. - Can save the configuration of the above. Smalltalkers have been doing this in commercial projects since the 80's. If only we could have commun…
We also had Virtual Machines with snapshots and rollbacks doing the things VMWare is now pushing so very hard. I have missed those tools for the past 13 years, since I left the language. The idea that I might get those tools back, in a language that also supports all the emacs-or-gtfo coders, is like promising me a perpetual motion machine. I will believe it when I see it, and until then it will taunt me in my dreams…
There is a Gemstone group at VMware. Send your resume.