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The death of a public intellectual

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Re: The death of a public intellectual

#271

Post by JSavageOne »

virtualritz wrote: post #211

It's noteworthy but sadly not surprising[1], that someone like Peterson is listed as an 'intellectual'. This man talks like ChatGPT when asked to clad a text of the most basic ideas, frequently completely missing the point, into sophisticated-sounding language. The other names tell me nothing; but having the former in the list kept me from looking up the latter. [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellec…

Even if you disagree with him Jordan Peterson is absolutely a public intellectual. Anyone who has been so publicly outspoken with such an enormous following and made a dent in the universe is absolutely a public intellectual. Just because you disagree with his views (none of which you've disputed in your vague criticism) doesn't dispute that.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#272

Post by KittenInABox »

migro23 wrote: post #204
ubermonkey wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't hit the link --- getting a 503 -- but I'd add a few. Rebecca Solnit ( Men Explain Things To Me , widely awarded) Ta-Nehisi Coates ( Between the World and Me , MacArthur Fellow) Ibrahim X. Kendi ( How to Be an Antiracist , MacArthur Fellow)

Once I heard Kendi's definition of racism (1) I could no longer take that guy seriously. He is a social justice warrior public intellectual of the post modernist variety leading me to think he is either innocently and unknowningly deluded or an intentional and nefarious grifter profitting from giving apparent credence to the hard left hardliners. A similar role that Jordan Peterson leverages to make a living arguing…

Not going to like, the definition of racism there makes sense to me. Racism being a set of racist policies resulting in inequality based on racist beliefs. I mean, how else do you describe what race-based slavery is? Slavery is a policy resulting in literal enslavement based on the idea of black people's inferiority.

Like, compare this to ableism-- disabled people often are not allowed to get married because, in order to receive support in society as a disabled person, disabled people are not allowed to have anywhere near the personal worth of an able-bodied person. There's no way this came about completely without some fucked up ideas about disabled people. I also see no way to discuss how this policy came about without bringing up a society-wide acceptance on the lack of worth disabled people "should" be allowed to have.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#273

Post by mattgreenrocks »

alwyn wrote: post #229
BryanLegend wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure I'll get downvoted here, but I think Peterson is brilliant. His books have absolutely given me insightful ideas that have improved my life and relationships.

12 Rules for Life was mostly good, it definitely helped me with some things. I liked his earlier podcasts on JRE and other shows. However, I couldn't get through Beyond Order at all; I had to drop it fairly early. I think I still like the Peterson from 5-ish years ago. How he currently is, and how he has _mostly_ been for the past 2 years or so does not align with me anymore.

Can’t help but feel like something happened to him during the rehab years. It is miraculous he came through, but he seems very different.

Might be the fame, aging, the need to build an audience, or the rehab process. Who knows.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#274

Post by Der_Einzige »

scruple wrote: post #131
formerly_proven wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last couple years there was more than ample opportunity to see how badly this approach fails, you have droves of these "public intellectuals" as TFA calls them for every crisis (COVID, energy crisis, russian wars, gaza etc.) and almost all of them are just Average Joes dishing out their BBQ-level hot takes in public. Remember all the math and physics PhDs in 2020 suddenly being genius experts on disease modell…

Yes. This was prominent when Russia invaded Ukraine. It was as if millions of people woke and decided, "I'm tired of being an infectious disease expert. Starting today, I'm a military intelligence expert!"

You know, there is a difference between Covid denialism and saying “maybe we should have invested in a lot more air purifiers and good ventilation”. I’m butthurt about the lack of science used for understanding an airborn contagion even by our elected officials.

Scientific people who are outside of a field that has institutional scientific blindness problems are absolutely allowed to call out that bullshit when we see it. We don’t get upset when a non chiropractor says that chiropractors are hucksters. I should not be lumped in with Covid deniers for pointing out that most disease experts massive undervalued and underutilized air ventilation techniques (an example technique would be doing regular activities, like classes, outside)

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#275

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

m463 wrote: post #15
greendude29 wrote: post #6

> First it was Jordan Peterson, then it i was Eric Weinstein, then Chamath, the list goes on. Most recently, it’s been Peter Zeihan. These are not intellectuals, let alone public ones. They are all American and follow a 'clickbait' model to public discourse. Seems like you repeatedly fall for it and enjoy doing so. Nothing here reflects any form of intellect.

Isn't Jordan Peterson a canadian university professor? I've only briefly heard him, but why is he so polarizing? He just seemed to say sort of "be a decent person and work hard".

>He just seemed to say sort of "be a decent person and work hard".

We live in a world where even that statement is controversial.

There is a zeitgeist of re-engineering society. Peterson and his tired schtick of "just keep doing the things that were successful for previous generations" interferes. It is unwanted.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#276

Post by raincole »

michpoch wrote: post #119
bakuninsbart wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are trying to be a well-rounded person with well-founded opinions on different topics, it makes sense to believe that there are others like you who are further along the way. Both of your examples have a very strong technical component, either understanding the underlying biology/epidemiology or understanding war theory and practice. It is indeed unlikely that someone is an expert in both. But many important t…

> If you are trying to be a well-rounded person with well-founded opinions on different topics, it makes sense to believe that there are others like you who are further along the way. Maybe that's the issue with me. The more I learn, over years, the more cautious I become about forming an opinion . It's very rare that things are black or white, I can see it being all very grey. So if I see someone describing, with fu…

> it's very rare that things are black or white, I can see it being all very grey

When I was a teen I saw the world as black and white.

When I got in college I knew they are all grey.

And now I understand there are different shades of grey. Most of time we have no enough information to tell, but sometimes it's worth to look closely to distinguish them.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#277

Post by migro23 »

KittenInABox wrote: post #272
migro23 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I heard Kendi's definition of racism (1) I could no longer take that guy seriously. He is a social justice warrior public intellectual of the post modernist variety leading me to think he is either innocently and unknowningly deluded or an intentional and nefarious grifter profitting from giving apparent credence to the hard left hardliners. A similar role that Jordan Peterson leverages to make a living arguing…

Not going to like, the definition of racism there makes sense to me. Racism being a set of racist policies resulting in inequality based on racist beliefs. I mean, how else do you describe what race-based slavery is? Slavery is a policy resulting in literal enslavement based on the idea of black people's inferiority. Like, compare this to ableism-- disabled people often are not allowed to get married because, in orde…

Do you see any problem in using the term you are trying to define in your definition of that term?

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#278

Post by RationalDino »

blueflow wrote: post #228
virtualritz wrote: post #211

It's noteworthy but sadly not surprising[1], that someone like Peterson is listed as an 'intellectual'. This man talks like ChatGPT when asked to clad a text of the most basic ideas, frequently completely missing the point, into sophisticated-sounding language. The other names tell me nothing; but having the former in the list kept me from looking up the latter. [1] https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellec…

95% of times when i hear about Peterson, its someone trying to discredit him. Then i go to Youtube, search for what Peterson said about $topic, and can't find shit that i would even bother about. This stuff is getting creepy. Where is all the dislike coming from?

What you are experiencing is called "the controversy bait-and-switch". Peterson is a master of it.

What he does is say something designed to look like a dog whistle to get people upset. Then when challenged on it, he say something reasonable to pull in fans. Then he says something else which is designed to be misunderstood, and repeats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKwSDqJAum8&t=244s explains it, and shows an actual example of how Peterson does it. This example had Peterson using the phrase "enforced monogamy" without context, causing people to assume that he wanted laws to enforce monogamy. Then, when challenged, he said, "Oh, no, what I meant was SOCIALLY enforced monogamy. All that I'm saying is that monogamy is a good thing!" Score 1 for Peterson. And people left sore about it are now primed to react doubly at whatever piece of bait he presents next.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#279

Post by mattgreenrocks »

twic wrote: post #199
raincole wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It does feel like something like that. Maybe not that exactly, but many people have some sort of need for external authorities to tell them what to do, what to think, who to be, etc. Some lack of confidence in their own judgement? Insecurity about making their own decisions?

People want certainty, and many are willing to let go of independence of thought to try to get it.

Re: The death of a public intellectual

#280

Post by migro23 »

ubermonkey wrote: post #244
migro23 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I heard Kendi's definition of racism (1) I could no longer take that guy seriously. He is a social justice warrior public intellectual of the post modernist variety leading me to think he is either innocently and unknowningly deluded or an intentional and nefarious grifter profitting from giving apparent credence to the hard left hardliners. A similar role that Jordan Peterson leverages to make a living arguing…

The apparent use of "social justice warrior" as a pejorative suggests that maybe engaging with you won't be productive for either of us.

I understand your skepticism, but I was intending to use the term descriptively, not pejorative. Apologies if any offence was taken.
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