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LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

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Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant is that in mercantilist world you do have asymmetrical protectionism, and that has real-world effects that require more thought than simply standing by the free market position, because it's not a free market even if you try on your end.

There are no perfect free markets. But the closer you can get to them, the more beneficial they are. Protectionism hurts yourself just like trade sanctions and embargoes hurt the other guy.

This just really isn't true empirically.

What ends up happening is that countries cannot jump start industries that are already established and competitive in other countries. For countries to get into the renewable energy game, for example, they need to subsidize local industry and put a good bit of government capital on the line to the get to a point where they're productive at globally acceptable levels.

Countries don't need to pick _the_ cheapest products from around the world; getting good-enough local work that provides high value-add and keeps foreign currency reserves from going overseas is something that's objectively preferred by most of the global population. Most people are most definitely willing to accept +/- 15% cost of living changes in order to live in places with good employment and quality tax-funded services and infrastructure over having cheap imported crap.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold of you to assume it's the same people, that will deliver the same quality of work

20 years ago when the first wave of outsourcing to India happened, a lot of the engineers there were not great. Nowadays there are amazing engineers in India also. They do know what they are worth though, so you cannot low ball them. But they are still working for quite a bit less than Bay Area folks.

My experience is that qualified engineers in overseas markets are not significantly cheaper than American engineers when all costs are factored in.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#273
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>employees in other regions didn't get the same terms Yep, that's what happens when you have labor laws that dictate the terms. It cuts both ways.

You're doubly wrong: 1- the laws dictate minimum terms for the agreements, they don't put ceilings on the maximums 2- the regions in which employees got shafted in that way aren't the regions in which employment laws are stricter

> 1- the laws dictate minimum terms for the agreements, they don't put ceilings on the maximums

That's not how it works in many jurisdictions: if a company does a round of layoffs and exceeds the terms ... those are the new terms going forward for that company.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#274

>"We did not expect to share this important update with you all in the midst of such challenging times, but in the spirit of creating clarity, Tomer and I wanted to share some news regarding changes we are making to our orgs....Tomer and I made these decisions with deep consideration - Mohak & Tomer" Is it normal for a CEO like Satya Nadella not to write this email? Kind of off-putting that MSFT is keeping its hands…

LinkedIn negotiated its own independent P&L from Microsoft. If anything, it's a little weird that it didn't come from Ryan, but it seems like they likely announced layoffs a while back... and Product & Eng waited a while to actually make the cuts.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually they out-compete yours because they burn coal and you have to buy solar, they commute in packed trains while you drive tesla to work, they live in tiny apartments, while your house has a backyard and frontyard.

Protectionism is not a fix for comparative advantage. Regardless of the motives for protectionism, it will make your economy less competitive and less prosperous.

The East Asian Tigers being a major counterexample:

https://hir.harvard.edu/the-east-asian-miracle-where-did-ada...

It's basically Ha-Joon Chang's whole deal-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans:_The_Myth_of_Fr...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/hajoon-c...

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doubly wrong: 1- the laws dictate minimum terms for the agreements, they don't put ceilings on the maximums 2- the regions in which employees got shafted in that way aren't the regions in which employment laws are stricter

> 1- the laws dictate minimum terms for the agreements, they don't put ceilings on the maximums That's not how it works in many jurisdictions: if a company does a round of layoffs and exceeds the terms ... those are the new terms going forward for that company.

Do you have any reference for this? In which jurisdiction does it work like that?

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#277
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google L3 SWE in BLR: 36k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4bb28696-b3a9-430e-af6b-87e139b... Google L4 SWE in BLR: 64k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/3631ce80-f5fa-41e3-bd22-192a98a... Google L3 SWE in Bay Area: 236k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/8cb64099-ffcf-437f-baa3-a88ae7d... Google L4 SWE in Bay Area: 260k https://www.levels.fyi/offer/4468e21b-6650-4e6c-948b-e90ea1d... That's a difference between 4x and 6.5x I think…

Aggregate for Google is $181k, $272k, $44k, $77k. So between 3.5 and 4.1 times.

Ack, thanks for sharing.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no perfect free markets. But the closer you can get to them, the more beneficial they are. Protectionism hurts yourself just like trade sanctions and embargoes hurt the other guy.

This just really isn't true empirically. What ends up happening is that countries cannot jump start industries that are already established and competitive in other countries. For countries to get into the renewable energy game, for example, they need to subsidize local industry and put a good bit of government capital on the line to the get to a point where they're productive at globally acceptable levels. Countries…

> This just really isn't true empirically.

But it happens every time.

> For countries to get into the renewable energy game, for example, they need to subsidize local industry and put a good bit of government capital on the line to the get to a point where they're productive at globally acceptable levels.

If it was profitable to invest the capital, there's plenty of capital eager for something profitable to invest in. Having the government forcibly extract tax money and use it to invest pretty much guarantees it will be a lousy investment.

Currently, Washington State imposed a massive gas tax of $.50/gallon. The state is investing a big chunk of that into hydrogen electrolysis plants. The only people who are going to make money off of this are the contractors getting rich off of the construction projects. The state is pretty much guaranteed to get a negative ROI off of it.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protectionism is not a fix for comparative advantage. Regardless of the motives for protectionism, it will make your economy less competitive and less prosperous.

The East Asian Tigers being a major counterexample: https://hir.harvard.edu/the-east-asian-miracle-where-did-ada... It's basically Ha-Joon Chang's whole deal- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Samaritans:_The_Myth_of_Fr... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/hajoon-c...

East Asia switched to free markets, which is where their prosperity came from.

Re: LinkedIn laying off nearly 700, mostly from core engineering teams

#280
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you know? We 10x engineers are so special that we are waving off offer after offer and that will never end. Not only will that never end, but luckily I’m so perfect that I’ll never experience a disability or need any accommodation that I can’t just code or build myself. I mean even then, certainly you had a good enough exit at your first company (like anyone good) that you could basically retire whenever. I mea…

I know this is said in jest, but I just want to remind people there is no such thing as being too valuable to be a member of a union. LeBron James is in a union. Tom Cruise is literally striking right now as part of the SAG-AFTRA union strike. Unless John Carmack happens to be reading this, I guarantee you are not close to being as valuable an engineer as LeBron is a basketball player or Cruise is an actor.

Do they have a choice? I mean, can you work jn the industry and not be member of the union and not strike? Would you have trouble getting hired if you chose not to be a member?
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