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Poll: How long have you been programming?

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271–280 of 329 posts

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was also a motivating factor for me. Where I went to school, there wasn't really a lot of hardware jobs, but if I switched to software I could go work at a bank. After about 4 years I packed everything up and moved to Silicon Valley, just in time for the dot com bust :)

You are my kind of guys ! Why aren't there more guys like you in my team ?? I just love patronizing young enthusiastic programmers who just jumped careers and are now feeling insecure and scared of all the things that they might not know. Oh how I love to tell you that "It's more complicated than that" every time you feel like you nailed it. Yes, i'm such a douche, but for you I'm the "team leader".

Heh. :) I had a bit more CompSci than most that make the programming jump, from AP CompSci in high school to roughly two years worth of it to complete my CompEng degree (and a few "electives" such as compiler construction and a low-level intro to AI course). But there were still lots of things that I missed (OO and all the related trappings were completely missing from my schoolwork. STL barely existed.), but most of those had no benefit to what I was doing then. (Just as assembly and being able to design a chip from the sand up has little benefit to what I'm doing now.)

"Team Leaders" are fun to lead into blind alleys and ambush with little known facts and tricks, too. ;)

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#272
I just turned 20 and I've been programming for 8 years. The biggest thing I learned is that Gates was wrong -- skill continues to increase well after your first 3 years.

Outside of that, programming has proven to be one of the most rewarding skills I've ever learned.

12 - "Learned" Java. Didn't understand any of the concepts;

13 - Learned C, Understood a lot more. Read 'Hacking, Art of Exploitation';

14 - "Learned" x86, Wrote first WEP cracking utility for Win32 (distributed as binary at least :) when FMS was new;

15 - Got down to brass tacks and learned deep x86. Wrote first non-trivial exploit for use-after-free condition in Adobe Reader;

16 - Learned Ruby. Wrote first utility to repack the SSDT in Windows rootkits and hook accesses to the first memory page of the service descriptor. (Lots of people do this now);

17 - Learned a lot of Math. Wrote transfer control protocol on top of IP and wrote a lot of Cisco IOS utilities;

18 - "Learned" networking (A wildly complex and massively underestimated field, I'm not sure anyone really knows networking anymore) Reimplemented all of dsniff w/ STP & 802.1q utilities;

19 - Learned Erlang. Wrote my own NoSQL database (zv.github.com/artifact);

20 - Now :)

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#273
As a (very) young person, I hope that all of you who have the opportunity to (and feel it is appropriate) to instill programming into your children at a young age do so. The beauty of adopting a craft paradigm like programming lies in how it fails - All problems in programming are ultimately problems in dealing with our own intuitions about the mechanics of the world and our rationality, and the problematic interplay between those two agencies.

The very semantics of how we describe language advantages and disadvantages reflect this.

"Everything you manipulate is an object, and the results of those manipulations are themselves objects. However, many languages make the same claim, and their users often have a different interpretation of what object-oriented means and a different terminology for the concepts they employ."

Was that Jacques Lacan? Actually that's the pitch of the hit OOP dynamic language Ruby.

I think this is endlessly valuable to young people -- as so many programmers can attest, the key to solving errors seems to be in radical reassessments of your frame and mode of thinking: the nature of the solution to problems in programming isn't about abandoning rationality, as much as it is expanding the nature of rationality into solution sets such that the problem can be solved adequately. I don't think it's at all unscientific to say that when theres billions of hidden local variables at play in a machine, in some way, you have to put yourself at the mercy of a higher power (whatever that designation may imply).

Despite this, you still are the one in control. This is why I think software has something very important to offer kids for this dawning century. As a culture we're losing the real virtues of thinking passionately, of having a sense of responsibility for who you are, making something of your work and feeling good about your work and life in general.

Software, hacking, or whatever you'd like to call it gives you the undeniable feeling that your life is yours to create. Although it's a art mired in abstractions, it's incredibly concrete -- It's you reading this right now, making decisions, it lets you know that although it's true that theres about 7 billion people in the world, WHAT YOU DO MATTERS, not abstractly, but in material terms. A recurring message I see here in this thread is that software allows us to stop writing ourselves off and to stop seeing ourselves as the victim of a confluence of forces, despite us ultimately having no control of the machine beyond our own thoughts, no matter how aged, wizened or jaded with the craft we become.

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#274
Saved my allowance to buy a TI-86 graphing calculator a year before I would need it in school just so I could program in class. A Z80 @ 4mhz, it provided so many skills early on with effiency. Good times.

EDIT: Oh, and back before there were any online resources. You got the manual and thats it.

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#277
post #109

I was looking for something and found an old green-bar print-out of an SPS program I wrote in 1971. This was at Gateway High School in Monroeville, Pa., the same school pg went to a few years later. I imagine they upgraded to a modern language like FORTRAN, COBOL, or PL/1 by the time pg rolled up his sleeves in that data center.

Wow, I used to live in Birnam Wood, the apartment complex adjacent to Gateway High School. I didn't realize you or pg were from the area too. Living down in the city now though (Pittsburgh, for anyone else reading this).

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#279
post #7
post #4

It would be very interesting to cross correlate with age. Some programmers were exposed to code at a very young age. IMO, programming for 10+ yrs by age 20 is far more fascinating of a statistic than say programming for 15+ yrs by age 50. I ticked 10+, and I am 26. I was designing 'web pages' when I was in middle school, albeit geocities html, but then had my first programming class (C++) when I was 15. Curly braces…

I first learned BASIC on a Sinclair ZX81 which I got for my 7th birthday. I'm now 37 so I just scrape into the 20+ range.

oh wait.... 30 years! Now I feel old.

Re: Poll: How long have you been programming?

#280
post #63

You forgot 40+ and 50+ [I qualify for the first and almost for the second].

How old were you in the age of 8" floppies then? :)

I forget how big the floppies in the 360/44 were, but they may have been 8" (one of my first programming jobs was at a research mental hospital that had a 360/50 and a /44 and ran a network that stretched from Maine to DC - back when the computers had real core memory (which cost about a dollar a byte).
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