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UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

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Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#271

Post by krab »

kilotaras wrote: post #73
ryanjshaw wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already a thing, but it works the other way around. Here in South Africa, the largest private short-term health insurer gives you up to 75% cash back for 'healthy food choices' [1] i.e. they effectively reduce your premiums if you signal that you make healthier choices than other people in the fund. The law in South Africa says that short-term health insurers can't charge different people different premiums,…

> This is already a thing, but it works the other way around. Sorry for being pedantic, but charging "bad customers" $XXX and charging everyone $XXX more, whilst giving everyone but "bad customer" $XXX back, are equivalent.

Only if everyone participates. You'll generally have a third group of "unknown behavior customers". Then it makes a difference what the default price is.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#272

Post by captn3m0 »

sudshekhar wrote: post #227
captn3m0 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UPI protocol lets the acquirer lookup this to get additional information, and this is being used by several acquirers, notably Smartbuy@HDFC to provide phone numbers to merchants.

I think most data selling happens via branch employees / telecom operators instead of "at the top" Banks / UPI vendors have to comply with very strict data regulations and the confirmation of a "data leak" is enough to attract heavy penalties from the NPCI and RBI. Most banks and UPI service providers will never risk it, specially post the DEPA guidelines which have recently been adopted.

See this thread on twitter for reports: https://nitter.net/jackerhack/status/1632029845642412033, https://nitter.net/jackerhack/status/1630636510994378752

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#273

Post by Tijdreiziger »

berkes wrote: post #171
kmlx wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was in India earlier this year, and found there was no way (and I spent hours trying) for a foreigner to get access to the UPI system. never been to India. do they not support credit cards like the rest of the planet? visa/mastercard/amex? only UPI?

"the rest of the planet" doesnt accept visa/Mastercard just anywhere and certainly not amex. In e.g. The Netherlands, mostly cashless society now, creditcards are hardly ever used by locals and so many POS won't have the infra to accept CC payments. The world is not the US and the US isn't the world.

The transition from Maestro/VPay to MasterCard/Visa debit cards in the Netherlands is now nearly complete: https://www.betaalvereniging.nl/betaalproducten-en-diensten/...

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#274

Post by uwagar »

vinay_ys wrote: post #185
db1234 wrote: post #5

The most incredible thing about UPI is how it was embraced by even the poorest in the remote corners of India. One of the former finance ministers of India talked in a dismissive tone in the parliament about rural India adopting digital payments when the current government announced "Digital India" plan. Some one made a meme video out of it mocking him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCnv8gwN0ug Another video showin…

Super affordable smartphones and cheap and fast 4G data, great apps like GPay and PhonePe with lots of gamification and cashbacks and ubiquitous merchant acceptance through apps like PayTM, PhonePe and GPay were key drivers for this. Then, demonetization and covid were accelerants to achieve critical mass. Post 2022, its been unstoppable.

one conspiratorily wonders if its a government ploy to turn everyone cashless so that they can be debanked at will.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#275

Post by uwagar »

sateesh wrote: post #46
unmole wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What really led to the rapid uptake of UPI was Covid and people's reluctance to handle cash as a result of it. That timeline doesn't make sense. UPI was already a spectacular success by 2019.

In 2019 it was gaining traction, as the article shows the volume of transactions were around 1 billion per month in March 2019.

the opportunity to mine all this data by the government for any policy or intervention cannot be underestimated.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#276

Post by Indian_in_US »

sidcool wrote: post #2

The scale of UPI payments is unprecedented. Perhaps the best payment system in the world by far. My friends who come from US are always awe struck by the pervasiveness and easy of use of UPI payments. They want it so bad in the West!

I‘m Indian living in US. I would rather prefer NFC solution like credit card attached to Apple Pay over UPI. Once you use NFC with Apple Pay you are not going back to UPI. Plus credit card comes with fraud protection and credit card points that I can use for more travel.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#277

Post by achow »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

> You pay for a nice hot cup of ₹10 Chai on the streets but then you got a phone call later on - naively to upsell something..

Not sure what is this about.

Everyone pays using QR Code. No personal information like phone numbers are passed on to the merchant.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#278

Post by [deleted] »

achow wrote: post #277
Brajeshwar wrote: post #193

I’ve been using UPI since its very early days when it used to fail quite often. UPI is still one of the best things to happen in the financial scene in India. However, these days, personally, I’m trying to reduce it to either known people, or established institutions. I wish there is another layer of tokenization when one pays via UPI, like how Apple Pay does. I wish that the transaction is obfuscated and the phone n…

> You pay for a nice hot cup of ₹10 Chai on the streets but then you got a phone call later on - naively to upsell something.. Not sure what is this about. Everyone pays using QR Code. No personal information like phone numbers are passed on to the merchant.

[deleted]

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#279

Post by uwagar »

nopinsight wrote: post #55
bheadmaster wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite convenient for tracking people's consumption choices and discriminating based on them. Hi there! We've noticed an increase of fast food purchases in the log of your account. Therefore your medical insurance premiums have risen by 200% to accomodate the change. For lessened prices, you might want to start consuming our Healthy Food(TM) lunch packs by EvilCorp, made out of bugs for the good of the environment :)

I agree than tracking detailed purchase data can lead to serious discrimination and inequity especially in a dictatorship. The use case in your example, however, seems fair: * The person has a choice whether to consume fast food regularly. It’s their freedom, yes, but they should also accept the costs that come with their lifestyle choices. Similarly, if someone chooses to regularly drive at a daredevil speed, they s…

>The person has a choice whether to consume fast food regularly. It’s their >freedom, yes, but they should also accept the costs that come with their >lifestyle choices. Similarly, if someone chooses to regularly drive at a >daredevil speed, they should pay a higher premium.

i'm scared of people that think like this. all digital transactions enables such people to mandate these ideas - the road to hell with their good intentions.

Re: UPI Payments: 10B transactions a month done, next stop 100B

#280

Post by Indian_in_US »

ramraj07 wrote: post #119
ztrww wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tapping my phone on an NFC terminal seems much easier and more straightforward than having to scan a QR or install a third party app and having to figure out how to link it with my bank account. There is just probably not a lot of demand for a system like this in much of the west (in cases where you can’t use a card there is always SEPA instant payments)

The QR code has been a far more robust system for the Indian ecosystem which is predominantly filled with low-cost phones of widely different operating systems. A QR code also behaves as a readily identifiable logo of payment and further works from a distance. If anything I prefer the deliberateness of scanning a QR code, clearly similar to half a billion people at the least.

I’ve used both and I prefer NFC over UPI. I just need credit card and phone that supports NFC. No need of phone number, deal with entering pin, scanning QR code, linking account during setup, etc. Biggest plus point with linking credit card is fraud protection.

In US NFC is best and seamless since most people have high end phones. In India maybe UPI with QR code is better solution since you only need phone with a camera.

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