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Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

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Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#271

Post by babypuncher »

rbanffy wrote: post #163
failuser wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counter-example: Soldier of Fortune is broken on modern windows because of a misapplied compatibility hack. Rename the binary and it works with no problems. This is an awful way to implement backwards compatibility. Opaque and ad-hoc. They have been using similar toolset to break competitors applications. The choice of what old version of windows to run the program on is typically to try them one by one. Linux is no…

> Linux is no better with no stable ABI. I’m confused. Linus has repeatedly stated that the ABI should be stable, “we don't break user space”. There are exceptions, but any proposal that makes a breaking change to the kernel’s external symbols is very hard to push through. I don’t remember anything breaking because of a new kernel version except device drivers, which are part of the kernel anyway and should be compil…

The kernel userspace APIs are pretty stable, the APIs provided by the rest of what constitutes a complete Linux "operating system" are not. I've ended up using a lot of hacks and tricks to get some early Linux games running on modern systems. Some applications designed for X still have broken features in Wayland, and likely won't be fixed without new versions of said apps because making Wayland compatible would break the entire security model.

It's generally not a huge issue in Linux, because most of the software you use day to day is open source and probably maintained. The real problem children, across all operating systems, is proprietary video games. They're closed source, unmaintained, and their cultural value makes them highly desired targets for ongoing compatibility and preservation.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#272

Post by IronWolve »

psychphysic wrote: post #204
rbanffy wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux is no better with no stable ABI. I’m confused. Linus has repeatedly stated that the ABI should be stable, “we don't break user space”. There are exceptions, but any proposal that makes a breaking change to the kernel’s external symbols is very hard to push through. I don’t remember anything breaking because of a new kernel version except device drivers, which are part of the kernel anyway and should be compil…

Drivers being kernel specific is really annoying

Major problem with android, stuck with whatever version of android due to binary blob drivers.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#273

Post by Racing0461 »

knallfrosch wrote: post #20

See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…

This is actually what most gpu driver updates are. Instead of devs fixing their games, nvidia calcilated its in their best interest to just fix the game bugs at the gpu driver level and push updates.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#275

Post by [deleted] »

bartread wrote: post #74

All the people on that Twitter thread getting butthurt about it and complaining that Windows' backwards compatibility is a bad thing... WTF koolaid have they been drinking? I don't often sing Microsoft's praises but backwards compatibility is something they get absolutely right: something they've always got right. Everything doesn't have to be changing and breaking all the time and, to me, it's a mark of maturity whe…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#276

Post by [deleted] »

pdpi wrote: post #70

Microsoft's commitment to backwards compatibility is definitely one of the strengths of the Windows platform. On the flipside, it's also at the root at the insanity that is the forbidden word list in MS Teams channel names. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoftteams/limits-spec...

[deleted]

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#278

Post by [deleted] »

snickerbockers wrote: post #116

That's cute and all, but it's fucking gzip. It doesn't have complex dependencies. Pretty sure Linux could run a 30 year old gzip binary too. I've never needed to do that with gzip but I have definitely run binaries of a similar vintage without issue. Windows backwards-compatibility fails miserably on non-trivial programs, you're generally pretty lucky if you can get something from the XP-era or older to work out of t…

[deleted]

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#279

Post by rr808 »

lamontcg wrote: post #149
knallfrosch wrote: post #20

See also https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/06/13/how-microsoft-lost... one of the developers of the hit game SimCity, who told me that there was a critical bug in his application: it used memory right after freeing it, a major no-no that happened to work OK on DOS but would not work under Windows where memory that is freed is likely to be snatched up by another running application right away. The testers on the Win…

From where I'm sitting this looks like an excellent argument for breaking backwards compatibility. All those bullshit hacks are a maintenance and debugging burden for someone and a tax on the whole rest of the operating system -- and I'd argue that it really shows.

> and I'd argue that it really shows

Yep, the most popular desktop OS in the world and the 2nd biggest company in the world.

Re: Windows 11 will happily execute a binary compiled 30 years ago

#280

Post by fnordpiglet »

ukuina wrote: post #264
fnordpiglet wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is at that time updates for most shrink wrapped software were almost non existent and distribution even worse. Windows had an update facility and I bet you sim city for dos did not. So, either windows yielded and patched it’s behavior to run sim city or sim city users couldn’t run it under windows full stop until maxis distributed a new distribution on media. In todays world it looks like a ludicrous soluti…

People forget how every software developer had to spin up their own patch delivery infrastructure.

Back in the day it wasn’t even reasonably possible. You got a floppy/CD from the store and that was the end of the story. I mean, this is “Netscape just came out” times.
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