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At this company, we are family

pboyd.io

271–280 of 343 posts

Re: At this company, we are family

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Europeans had to pay to defend their own international shipping routes their taxes would be exorbinant.

In the real life (instead of the heads of famous youtubers), piracy is fought on each country, by the local country. That's agreed upon by almost every country on the world, and the ones that don't agree or don't hold their part are cut from the global economy. Despite what a famous youtuber like to preach, the US participation is on the US and very few countries that explicitly call for help. And when countries need…

It's not just piracy, right?

Re: At this company, we are family

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for someone who liked that, too, and after leaving Netflix, he carried it over into a new startup. It was not as great of an experience for any of us (including that founder) as it may sound. Years later, and we still talk amongst ourselves about how weird of an environment it created. Basically, that outlook sounds great on paper, but is not so great to actually live.

Did they actually pay Netflix level? Either with huge cash salaries or very very large equity packages?

I don't understand why people think that this philosophy only makes sense if you have gigantic compensation packages.

What's so off-putting about: "Do well and you stick around, do poorly and you go away"?

Re: At this company, we are family

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a large cultural component here. I've never worked at a place where any significant "team building" took place outside of work hours, but I know many devs (mostly outside the US) who told me that it does.

I've always had these events outside work hours. We get paid to work. After work, the company is buying us drinks but not paying us to drink them. Where's the problem?

The issue is if the company is requiring me to spend time doing company things, then I'm working and should be paid for it. If it's actually optional, then there is no problem.

Buying drinks or not doesn't really enter into it, particularly for people who don't drink.

Re: At this company, we are family

#274
post #206

This is why I always liked Netflix's outlook (both stated and practiced): We are a sports team, not a family. Perform well and you will be paid well, perform poorly and you will get a nice check to go elsewhere. And sometimes you might perform really well but we just don't need someone with your skills anymore, so we'll still give you nice check to go elsewhere, and that isn't a reflection on your abilities.

I like the sports team concept in terms of being a sieve for performance. Similar to HS->College->NFL athletes, elite military SOF groups, etc. You get binned and sometimes that's hard to accept, but that's the point of the filter. It's interesting that despite the high-performance culture though, Netflix is still slowly degrading. This past year I finally realized I could cancel Netflix and not feel like I lost anyt…

It depends on what metrics you are basing the degradation. Financially they are doing very well. After they cracked down on account sharing, they gained six million new subs, so they seem to be doing well on product as well.

They don't seem to have as much breakout content as before, but I think they have a lot of minor hits, especially in other countries. And honestly that is better for their business than huge breakout hits.

From what I've heard from friends who are still there, the nexus of the company shifted from the Bay Area to Hollywood a few years ago. At that point they became more of an entertainment company than a tech company. Some have said all the "hard" problems are solved, now they are just making small adjustments. Although I disagree with this: they quietly added live streaming which was a huge tech leap for Netflix, although it was so quiet no one seems to have noticed.

Also, with the economy the way it is and being an entertainment company now, they are starting to worry more about budgets. When I was there the only real budget guidance we got was "don't grow your headcount faster than our subscriber count" and "keep IT costs flat on a per stream basis". I hear now directors get budgets they have to stick to.

Also they added leveling which allowed them to hire more junior engineers. When I was there, there were no levels. We didn't really hire junior engineers. We hired senior engineers to solve problems that usually juniors would be given, and they would solve it with automation and robustness that maybe took a bit longer and would be considered "over-engineered" but that lasted for years and scaled with minimal effort.

But the freedom is still there for the most part. Managers still mostly just provide context and the leaf nodes come up with the implementations.

Re: At this company, we are family

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much of that team cohesiveness happens outside of work hours. How is that not unpaid labor?

Because it's voluntary and they're buying your food/drinks?

If it's voluntary then there is no problem.

"Voluntary" means that there will be no adverse effect on your employment if you decline to participate. Your characterization of the activity strongly implies that not participating will come with consequences to your job.

Re: At this company, we are family

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they actually pay Netflix level? Either with huge cash salaries or very very large equity packages?

I don't understand why people think that this philosophy only makes sense if you have gigantic compensation packages. What's so off-putting about: "Do well and you stick around, do poorly and you go away"?

> What's so off-putting about: "Do well and you stick around, do poorly and you go away"?

Because I don't want to have that kind of instability if I don't get a lot of money to make up for it. It works because people know that if they get "cut" they'll be doing fine.

Also, the best people have lots of options. If there are multiple interesting options, all else being equal the extra cash will help a lot.

Re: At this company, we are family

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What about the European system prevents that for the employee? From personal experience: 1. Less employment opportunities due to no VC funding, and risk averse mentality of entrepreneurs meaning next to no big EU SW product companies. That's why the best paying jobs in EU tech scene are mostly US companies, which also tend to be clustered in only a few cities in the EU, where housing is now a major issue. 2. Employm…

Never experienced #3 in Europe. Language barrier is a non-issue since most countries are fluent in English. #4 is definitely a bit of an issue. Europe is surprisingly regressive, even compared to the US. Lots of rude comments towards non-white coworkers.

>Language barrier is a non-issue since most countries are fluent in English.

Absolutely not treu. You probably didn't read the part in my comment where I explained my experiences where needing the local language was a must for dealing with the bureaucratic paperwork you can end up facing regularly.

Maybe in northern Europe that might be true but it's definitely not my experience in Austria (and even in Denmark I have friend who met doctors' offices telling them they need to speak Danish). Language barrier is defiantly an issue here, especially outside the SW dev world.

Plenty of government offices you have to interact with don't or don't want to speak English (mostly due to older grumpy staff). Plenty of police officers don't speak English (also the older staff). Plenty of doctors, nurses and specialists don't speak English. Plenty(most?) companies outside of SW require German knowledge. Plenty of landlords and building management companies or utility companies don't speak or don't want to speak English. The list can go on, especially if you mostly land with older staff members. The language barrier is real. Sure, sometimes you can get lucky and land a young contact person who speaks great English and will want to help you, but that's quite rare, most will tell you "nur Deutsch" and then you're shit out of luck as a lot of the issues need to be solved over the phone or in person instead of email where you can fire up deepl.

I remember when a negligent driver hit me while cycling, the two police officers who came over spoke no English at all as they were a bit older. This happens quite often when you deal with older staff.

Saying English is all you need to get by is a gross over-exaggeration and does not match the struggles me and my friends had here at all. Sure, you can order a beer and a pizza in English just fine, but any and all official bureaucracy needs to be done in the local language, not in English, often on the phone or in person, on paper and the spot, without the possibility to easily google translate the thing you're signing, like you can on web forms (and even the stuff google translate camera app spits out is a lot of the time confusing as hell). And believe me, there's a lot of paper work: contracts, insurance forms, complaints, registration forms, etc.

Also, it's respectul to learn the local language to integrate, unless you want to make life difficult for yourself, and live in isolation in expat-only bubbles.

Anyway, my point is, from personal experience, it's still a huge hassle, to move and live in countries where you don't speak the local language as not everything and everyone is always geared to swatch to English for your convenience.

Re: At this company, we are family

#278
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I contracted at a company once which operated like a family. Once you got hired, it was really difficult to get fired. So much so, most people there hadn't heard about anyone ever getting fired. Eventually, someone heard through the grapevine what a firing offense was: Getting caught having sex on the company campus with a coworker. But! The first time was a warning. That company had soooo much money to burn. Lots of…

> what a firing offense was: Getting caught having sex on the company campus with a coworker. If both/all people are consenting, that might be slightly tacky, but surely shouldn't be a fireable offense.

>> on the company campus

That part seems fireable IMO (or the getting caught part)

Re: At this company, we are family

#279
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the interview process should include 'culture fit' so that it can weed out people who would be good at getting the work done but not fun for the bros to hang out and drink beer with.

They usually do. Even if you don't realize it, you're being sized up in an interview and common feedback is "I can't see myself wanting to grab a beer with him". I actually had a conversation yesterday about it with someone I interviewed and the hiring manager that reports to me. I like the person, he said the comment about not sure about getting beers with the candidate. I told him to focus on the other 90 days a qu…

> common feedback is "I can't see myself wanting to grab a beer with him".

Wow. I've been part of interviewing teams for tons of people, at a number of companies, over decades. I have never once heard anyone express anything like this about an applicant.

The discussions are more about whether or not they can do the job and whether or not they'd be a good fit on the team, not whether or not anyone wants to socialize with them.

Re: At this company, we are family

#280
Disregarding the biological aspects, I think the problem is "families" don't care about people, it's a group of individuals who, through deeply caring about each other, create this thing we've labelled a family. I've definitely had glimpses of this with some work relationships, but it had nothing to do with the company.
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