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Rust: The wrong people are resigning

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Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#271

Post by meindnoch »

wahahah wrote: post #259
meindnoch wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but we can still make an educated guess on who's behind the fictional cartoon character...

In the culture of virtual youtubing, discussing anything past the character and their content is a faux pas. On 4chan's /vt/ the euphemism for this is "roommate" discussion, and any posting of details about "roommates" is a bannable offense. Of course being 4chan some users will eat bans (primarily when they're upset and want to spite other users), so some details of some known roommates do inevitably surface from ti…

Cool, I guess. But I'm not in the (niche) culture of virtual youtubing, so I don't see why I should talk about a digital cartoon as if it was a real person :D

Hope you understand!

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#272

Post by meindnoch »

nickitolas wrote: post #257
meindnoch wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? A cursory google search says it's a guy called Hector Marcan. Is this wrong?

Blowing the cover on someone's online persona (And using the wrong pronouns for that persona's work) seems pretty rude to me

"Blowing the cover"

Lol. I just stated what's already out there. It's like "blowing the cover" on the voice actor of Spongebob Squarepants...

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#273

Post by meindnoch »

kaba0 wrote: post #269
meindnoch wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can also be pretty off-putting for women to be honest. When someone's avatar is an AI-generated "waifu" picture with deep cleavage, I don't think it looks welcoming for the average female programmer...

Calling them female is much more off putting. Women is a word.

What do you mean? I thought these are synonyms. (English is not my native language though)

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#274

Post by revelio »

meindnoch wrote: post #273
kaba0 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling them female is much more off putting. Women is a word.

What do you mean? I thought these are synonyms. (English is not my native language though)

You said it correctly. "Average woman programmer" is un-idiomatic English.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#275

Post by SSLy »

kaba0 wrote: post #269
meindnoch wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can also be pretty off-putting for women to be honest. When someone's avatar is an AI-generated "waifu" picture with deep cleavage, I don't think it looks welcoming for the average female programmer...

Calling them female is much more off putting. Women is a word.

> female, adj.; feminine; woman(ly); womanlike; womanish; effeminate. These adjectives all share the sense “of, relating to, or involving women.” Female is a neutral term usually used to indicate the sex of a person (or an animal or plant), in contrast with male . Feminine typically refers to what are traditionally considered a woman’s favorable qualities . Womanly often carries these positive connotations as well , but it’s also used to distinguish an adult female from a girl . (Woman is sometimes used attributively where female would be more natural . These constructions are best avoided.)

Garner's Modern English Usage

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#276

Post by SSLy »

andrewflnr wrote: post #191
serial_dev wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised how people pretend to be outraged over a fork of an open source language. They are outraged by the fork because having a fork reach thousand stars so quickly made it harder to ignore the reality that people who love the language were fed up with the leadership. Forking is the essence of open source software. Don't like something somebody else is doing with a software? It's open source, so you do it you…

Forking is a huge resource sink, if it goes anywhere at all. It disrupts network effects that software benefits from. It is, if nothing else, leaving a local maximum of utility for everyone. In short, it's inconvenient, if not actually painful and heralds future inconvenience/pain. Anger may not be wise, depending on the specifics, but it should absolutely not be surprising.

Compare and contrast your opinion with EGCS

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#277

Post by sshine »

jcranmer wrote: post #205
throwawaymaths wrote: post #6

> downgrade was not racially motivated, thankfully Who would have suspected this was racially motivated? Not to defend any actions by anyone, but a keynote is an unusual place to talk about experimental feature a language is considering (unless it's a small component of a bigger update/forecast). That said once the decision was made they should have gone through with it.

> a keynote is an unusual place to talk about experimental feature a language is considering (unless it's a small component of a bigger update/forecast). Quite the opposite, I believe. Since a keynote is seen by a dramatically larger slice of the audience, it's a good slot for talks meant to provoke thoughts and discussion, even if that discussion isn't necessarily one you agree with.

Seconded.

Rust is a great language with a good macro system that gets used more than it needs to than if it had a stronger type system.

To succeed at improving the language, contributors must strike a balance between approaching the PL research frontier while remaining a practical language.

ThePHD’s talk is a take on that trajectory that appears Pareto-optimal. It’s a really good subject for a keynote, I think.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#278

Post by phlakaton »

caust1c wrote: post #99
twelfthnight wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish we had more role models these days who were willing to disagree with decisions and work to fix them rather than loudly resign or point fingers. Feels like there is a lot of pressure these days that if you are part of a "bad" system then _you_ are bad, even if you are trying to improve it from the inside. So it's understandable people quit instead of taking on the burden of having to prove their "goodness", it's…

Golang has lots of good examples of design discussions without vitriol in their RFCs and proposals. There is the occasional bikeshedding and needless bickering granted, but it mostly stays civil and is the most mature language community I've ever had the pleasure of being a part of.

The drama around Go modules comes immediately to mind as a counterexample – and that one was a technical snafu that impacted many projects using Go. Pobody’s nerfect.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#279

Post by phlakaton »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #23
bluejekyll wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the reason they are saying it doesn’t matter, is that without a clear statement of what happened from the decision makers, people can speculate. One of those things people will speculate on is if this was one of the reasons. The fact that it is also part of the equation means it can’t be outright ignored and so will also need to be addressed. On top of that, this is already an underrepresented group, and re…

I vehemently disagree. Unless there is reason to suspect race is a factor, which there is none in this case, then discussion should move on the issue at hand, and speculation about racism should be discouraged or ignored. Your perspective, while well intentioned, is exactly the sort that drives needless division and suspicion in modern discourse.

There is reason to suspect race is a factor: the facts of who was disinvited and how they were treated. There is also reason (the word “uncomfortable” in JT’s post) to suspect people are weaponizing DEI language and sensitivities as an “I win” button to boot the speaker, which ironically is having the opposite effect than what DEI initiatives generally intend.

Re: Rust: The wrong people are resigning

#280

Post by phlakaton »

armchairhacker wrote: post #56

I think this Rust drama is way over-exaggerated. One community member made one decision for one conference which they probably thought wouldn't be a big deal (I understand now that it is, but to an outsider "keynote downgraded to regular presentation" don't seem like much). And now multiple people are leaving the Rust team, and some random commentators are "disgraced" by the Rust Project, and "threatening" to stop us…

If they can work out a proper apology and accountability, and restore the keynote, great. But the damage is done, and simply inviting the speaker back is not going to make amends.
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