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Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

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Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#271

Post by friend_and_foe »

somethoughts wrote: post #191
8note wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems weird that the office workers are working from the office and not in the production line too, no? Do your meetings while assembling a car, I'd you're worried about the people assembling cars feeling bad

I think that is the preference/ideal scenario that Musk has in his head. Take a morning standup with your coworkers about supply chain/scrum, head to the factory floor to show the technicians how to flash the latest firmware to the infotainment system, do some heads down work, go home, eat dinner and then take a phone conference late at night with your Tesla China/Berlin counterpart. Probably impressions matter on th…

I think this is probably where the motivation comes from. You don't want the people who get their hands dirty viewing the people that make decisions for them as some floating heads somewhere off in the ether. If they dont come around ever that's what's going to happen. It creates resentment, destroys morale, and you have to balance that with the morale impact of making the information workers show their faces often enough.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#272

Post by Eisenstein »

jjnoakes wrote: post #190
ipaddr wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easier to coast at the office and look productive. Much easier. Attending every social fuction, social visits, adhoc meetings can kill half a week easy.

No disagreement here. I think office workers should be productive too.

Honest question: why?

Why should people work so hard all the time? In the US, we are already insanely productive compared to almost every other worker in every other country and even compared to ourselves a few decades ago.

We work hard to bring value to our employer who wouldn't waste a minute for sympathy when they lay us off to increase their margins for a quarter, but you feel that we have to be productive all the time or else, what? We are immoral?

I contend that the worker owes nothing but fulfilling their job description. If you don't have work to do, then why find it?

There is no need to 'be productive' every working hour of every day if you don't have to be. To do so is insanity in my opinion. Go be with your family. Kids grow up way too fast and you are missing it.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#273

Post by Kbelicius »

somethoughts wrote: post #223
rover0 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop here? Some workers have shifts, some have to work outside in the rain. It's only fair that everyone works outside in the rain in shifts?

I would say usually this is deftly handled at other tech companies (MSFT, AAPL, Netflix, Facebook, Google) by outsourcing all meal preparation, cleaning services, security, low level IT, contract manufacturing to other companies. That way there is not a separate class within the same company. This works most of the time to not create a press $*$!storm. The challenge for Elon (and Bezos/Jassy) is that his two of his c…

> That way there is not a separate class within the same company.

No, you've now created an even "lower" class within the company.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#274

Post by Rebelgecko »

marricks wrote: post #109
stuaxo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He owns a car company and wants people to use cars.

That is such an incredibly obvious take I somehow never thought of. Thanks! Not to mention, his main consumer would be exactly that white collar worker who'd rather not drive to the office. It's a sort of sick inversion of Henry Ford's > "I want my employees to be able to buy my car" to... > "I want all employees to be forced to own one"

And for traffic to be so bad that they buy autopilot

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#275

Post by Kbelicius »

missedthecue wrote: post #186
WesternWind wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't work from home been shown to improve worker efficiency and happiness too?

I think it's been shown to increase isolation. The number of young people going days without seeing another human being should startle and upset.

> The number of young people going days without seeing another human being should startle and upset.

That number has little to do with WHF. WHF might have increased it but it certainly isn't the root cause or even a major driver of the rise.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#276

Post by dontlaugh »

faddypaddy34 wrote: post #116
cebert wrote: post #5

I’m so proud of these workers uniting and fighting back on RTO mandates. It has been proven that knowledge workers can work productively and efficiently without being required to be in the office a set number of days.

Yeah fighting back, by walking out during lunch only if a thousand people sign the petition. So brave.

Industrial action build up from even smaller actions. Strikes don’t come out of nowhere.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#278

Post by Am4TIfIsER0ppos »

viraptor wrote: post #70
Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #6

As I said last time "Please remember to turn the servers off when you go on strike".

There's a line between a strike and sabotage. That idea is on the wrong side and either a reason to fire you or sue you. I hope nobody seriously considers it.

When bus drivers go on strike you cannot continue to use the buses. When air traffic controller go on strike you cannot continue to fly. When teachers go on strike you are forced to stay home and look after your kids (which isn't actually a bad thing).

It isn't a strike if you aren't inconveniencing others.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#279

Post by Mizoguchi »

neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

How about people with dangerous jobs? police officers, firefighters, miners and ironworkers, pilots, soldiers, drivers...

Would that make having a desktop job morally wrong?

I get Elon's point that manufacturing often requires some people to report to site, particularly in a company like Tesla.

But generalizing and saying that all positions require to report to office because of moral and ethical reasons is ridiculous.

How about incentives for commuting to work? Not flashy offices with free snacks and meditation rooms, how about money?

Companies usually reallocate to remote suburban areas to pay less taxes, and they expect people to spent over 40 hours per month, a full week of additional work, for free, to commute to the office.

That's morally wrong from all angles.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#280

Post by smeej »

danjac wrote: post #249
smeej wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother calls return-to-office policies "panicking, in Boomer." Tech company profits are declining. Management (especially Boomer management) needs to be seen as "doing something" or they're the ones on the chopping block. So they force everybody back into the office so they can be seen to be managing. God forbid the cause of declining profits be things like national monetary policy or years of short-term decision…

I doubt there are that many Boomers left in tech management - almost all that age cohort are in retirement or semi-retired, they're enjoying their Saga cruises and golf courses (or if they're unlucky, their Walmart greeter jobs). I suspect there are managers panicking about losing relevance in a post-office world, but those will be middle-managers, not CEOs. Much of the panic is from owners of commercial real estate…

I'm specifically talking about the middle managers. They're the ones who need to be seen "doing things," so when it's time to surface any ideas for how to fix the problem, especially when it's their butts on the line, this is what comes out.

But I also refer to the boards and investors. We'd love to think it's all a young person's VC game, but behind all that money is still, more often than not, someone who panics in Boomer.

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