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The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

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Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#271

Post by tpxl »

andybak wrote: post #162
tpxl wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If creating LLMs based on copyrighted data is found to be legal, all that will do is allow giant companies to sell copyrighted work without crediting the original authors, while leaving everyone else in the dirt.

> all that will do is allow giant companies to sell copyrighted work without crediting the original authors, while leaving everyone else in the dirt. I'm not sure I follow. But even accepting your premise - I'm not sure how it will favour giant companies over anyone else. The models are already in the wild and anyone can use them. In some ways - large companies are less likely to do anything that might open them up t…

GPT is owned by Microsoft, LLama by Facebook and Bard by Google. If you trained a model on google public properties and started distributing it for money (or its output), we'd be sued into oblivion real quick.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#272

Post by andybak »

tpxl wrote: post #271
andybak wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all that will do is allow giant companies to sell copyrighted work without crediting the original authors, while leaving everyone else in the dirt. I'm not sure I follow. But even accepting your premise - I'm not sure how it will favour giant companies over anyone else. The models are already in the wild and anyone can use them. In some ways - large companies are less likely to do anything that might open them up t…

GPT is owned by Microsoft, LLama by Facebook and Bard by Google. If you trained a model on google public properties and started distributing it for money (or its output), we'd be sued into oblivion real quick.

My point was that the models exist, people are fine tuning them and/or releasing open clones. There are models of comparable power to the state of the art without any controlling interest from a big tech company.

The Google memo covered this in detail and it was what makes me want to question the "AI is owned by big tech" angle.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#273

Post by zirgs »

gumballindie wrote: post #221
zirgs wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't forbid others from learning from your work. If you want to prevent it then don't post it publicly.

Sorry, ai is not “others”, it’s software. This argument of yours is equal to if you dont want to get mugged dont go outside.

If someone wants to learn stuff from your work - they will and there's nothing that you can do about it. I can train a LoRA on someone's artstyle in a few hours on my PC. You can rent a GPU and do it under an hour. It takes more time to curate, process and caption images than to actually train the AI. It's that easy. So yeah - the cat is out of the bag and you will have to adapt.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#274

Post by timwaagh »

input_sh wrote: post #144
timwaagh wrote: post #131

I don't why bard isn't coming to the EU. Is it this or something else. Google hasn't explained it. I would hope that any ai act will allow reasonable players like Openai, Microsoft and Google to continue their good work without ruining into too much red tape. Considering what is happening, if it's because of the ai act, the act might be too strict as the EU risks getting disadvantaged by not having access to the same…

Under what criteria did you reach the conclusion that OpenAI, Microsoft and Google are reasonable players in all of this? Is it purely based on their name recognition? Is that not antithetical to the idea of a competitive market? Also, there aren't 180 countries in the world that are outside of EU.

I read 180 countries get access. From what I have seen from the list the ter m'countries and territories' might be more accurate.

I think they're reasonable players. They are either well established or have goodish intents. I don't think they ever did anything worse than package internet explorer with Windows.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#275

Post by timwaagh »

robswc wrote: post #232
timwaagh wrote: post #131

I don't why bard isn't coming to the EU. Is it this or something else. Google hasn't explained it. I would hope that any ai act will allow reasonable players like Openai, Microsoft and Google to continue their good work without ruining into too much red tape. Considering what is happening, if it's because of the ai act, the act might be too strict as the EU risks getting disadvantaged by not having access to the same…

>Is it this or something else I ofc can't speak for Google but I know the work I did it was much easier to simply block the EU until compliance was sorted out. It was almost always fine and we didn't have to change anything but it wasn't worth the risk. I'd be shocked if it never made it to Europe.

Google has now said they will do it but indeed they want to sort out compliance first.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#276

Post by dragonwriter »

input_sh wrote: post #144
timwaagh wrote: post #131

I don't why bard isn't coming to the EU. Is it this or something else. Google hasn't explained it. I would hope that any ai act will allow reasonable players like Openai, Microsoft and Google to continue their good work without ruining into too much red tape. Considering what is happening, if it's because of the ai act, the act might be too strict as the EU risks getting disadvantaged by not having access to the same…

Under what criteria did you reach the conclusion that OpenAI, Microsoft and Google are reasonable players in all of this? Is it purely based on their name recognition? Is that not antithetical to the idea of a competitive market? Also, there aren't 180 countries in the world that are outside of EU.

> Also, there aren’t 180 countries in the world that are outside of EU.

If by countries you mean “UN member or non-member observer states”, correct.

But that’s pretty much the most conservative count. (And leaves 168 non-EU countries.)

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#277

Post by [deleted] »

zirgs wrote: post #57
criley2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can extrapolate this opinion all the way to "the only moral human existence is de-industrialization and return to hunter/gatherer lifestyle, and reducing humanity from billions to a million or less". You drew the line at software and automobiles, but it's not hard (and not a slippery slope) to authentically draw the line much further. All of civilization is bad for the planet and for us as well. Bread was a mista…

Surveillance capitalism isn't necessary for society to function. I can live just fine without google, fb and tiktok serving me ads. I can store my files in the cloud just fine without microsoft and google scanning them. Navigation apps work just fine without uploading location history to google. A lot of those so-called "innovations" aren't necessary.

[deleted]

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#278

Post by input_sh »

dragonwriter wrote: post #276
input_sh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under what criteria did you reach the conclusion that OpenAI, Microsoft and Google are reasonable players in all of this? Is it purely based on their name recognition? Is that not antithetical to the idea of a competitive market? Also, there aren't 180 countries in the world that are outside of EU.

> Also, there aren’t 180 countries in the world that are outside of EU. If by countries you mean “UN member or non-member observer states”, correct. But that’s pretty much the most conservative count. (And leaves 168 non-EU countries.)

But Bard is not available in way more "traditional" countries than just the EU.

https://support.google.com/bard/answer/13575153?hl=en

Canada, Brazil, WB6 (Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Macedonia, Kosovo), Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, Moldova, Ukraine, the ones under US sanctions (Syria, North Korea, Iran, Russia, Belarus, China)... plus 27 EU countries. That's 46 right there, and I probably missed a few.

But hey, gotta get those numbers up, so it's available to all of literally zero people living in Heard Island and McDonald Islands or South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#279

Post by renjimen »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #264
renjimen wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah. Lead in food is very specific. Software is very broad. Nobody said all software was bad.

What is an example of a specific, non-controversial harm that software causes?

Many military applications, obviously. Most of that is intentional harm. There’s a lot of unintentional harm in software too, such as biases in models for medical insurance companies, policing and the justice system.

Re: The EU AI act is coming, this time for real probably

#280

Post by neximo64 »

kolinko wrote: post #121
neximo64 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming you're typing this with the comfort of some kind of blink or webkit based web browser, made by said pests

We would all be using Internet Explorer now, if not for the US Government. So using browsers as an argument against regulations is a bad analogy.

Still made by a pest.

The original comment was about how Europe isn't able to nurture technology.

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