Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#271

Post by beepbooptheory » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:46 PM UTC

humanistbot wrote: post #166

robocat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic: That particular HN discussion contains many users creating a political narrative, and even at the time it was obvious there were many bad comments. I wish we had a way to downrank users that derail conversions with crap. Are there forums with better user moderation systems that boost ranking of quality comments and decrease ranking of comment noise? Something where I can systematically increase the ranking…

> are there forums with better user moderation systems that boost ranking of quality comments and decrease ranking of comment noise? Something where I can systematically increase the ranking of comments of users I respect (or I transitively respect), and decrease the ranking of comments for users that I see write crap It seems like you want a personalized filter bubble to confirm your pre-existing views and hide comm…

You are right that it's not the content of the views here that are really the problem, or principally shouldnt be.

But the overriding, horrendous issue is how threads and discussions are hijacked for the sake of every other guy's soapbox, and this thread in question is particularly exemplary here.

I have certainly accepted at this point that, e.g., some people see homeless people or drug addicted people as essentially subhuman. And the mechanics of free speech and discourse dictate that I see such views as having a place in some discussions (especially on this particular website it seems), however much it contradicts what I see as fundamental humanity or whatever.

But, to me, it didn't really feel like the right time or context in that thread. But I maybe I am wrong!

Like, I definitely accept that I personally have to stomach a lot if I want to see the discourse on this site in general, and I agree I don't necessarily want the bubble. And indeed, this is just what "living in a society" is all about. But so much in that particular thread just really felt misplaced and fundamentally insensitive, however essentially valid they were themselves as views. And I think that thread is just a good example not a one off thing.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#272

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #186

Vervious wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ton of people care about property crime and I don't think you should look down on them. SF has 3-5x the property crime of most major cities in the United States. I imagine most violent crime is targeted (i.e. the victim is not a random person walking down the street), but property crime is scary because it can happen to the best of us, our friends and our family, in even the "safest" neighborhoods. We all know frie…

You're performing a sleight of hand. No city census or national crime analysis categorizes burglary as a violent crime, and I'm not sure why you called SF out on it. I don't look down on people complaining about property crime, I'd just like them to be honest about what they are complaining about. SF is 55 out of the biggest 100 cities on burglary rates, by the way. (It's interesting how all this is apparently a cont…

[deleted]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#273

Post by pickledish » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

If you check out the “similar discussion” linked in a sibling comment to yours, you’ll find quite a lot of talking about that topic, if it interests you, for example the current top comment:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35555583

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#274

Post by orsenthil » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #212

jmacd wrote: post #149

I have a family member who is a police officer (investigator) in another country. I was telling them about this killing and how crazy things seemed in San Francisco during my last visit. His first and only response was "well, how do you know that's even related? Most people get killed by somebody they know." and I was like "well, yeah, but San Francisco is bad right now" and the conversation moved on.

It’s unclear from your anecdote if you either learned anything or came back to the conversation saying your family member’s hunch was right.

The implication here seems 'an expert' had a right intuition and disputed a widely believed initial claim.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#275

Post by zo1 » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:47 PM UTC

cemerick wrote: post #182

idopmstuff wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with saying that SF has relatively low violent crime is that it ignores the constant, extremely aggressive verbal assault that people are just accustomed to. In the years I lived there, I had people scream at me that they were going to kill/stab/etc. me at least a couple of dozen times (I would describe this as violent crime). Of course, if you call SFPD, they'll just tell you it's not an issue and ignore…

You're right, "violent crime" is a term of art that involves the commission of a…crime. "Verbal assault" is not assault. I guess if you don't like the vibes in a place, you can go somewhere else, but trying to use such things to influence how people talk about or perceive actual , no, for real crime is intellectual malpractice.

[flagged]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#276

Post by danso » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

emaginniss wrote: post #165

danso wrote: post #108

The SF-is-a-hellhole narrative is compelling, but the report that Lee was not the victim of a random crime shouldn't have been surprising. The FBI says 40+% of murders are committed by a family member or acquaintance, and 10% by total strangers: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

That leaves 50% in the unknown category. Who knows whether those other 50% have the same distribution as the knowns? It's also possible that most of the unknowns are stranger murders since the offender might be harder to identify in those cases. So, the ratio is somewhere between 10% stranger to 90% family and acquaintance and 60% stranger to 40% family and acquaintance.

Here's a 1977 NYT story [0] during a time in which there were many more murders and the stranger-rate nationwide was estimated at 20%:

- 1,622 homicides

- 1,246 where (known vs. stranger) relationships were established

- 354 of that 1,246 attributed to strangers

Today's clearance rate is lower [1], but it's not really apples-to-apples comparison for a lot of reasons relating to recordkeeping conventions. But clearance rate for white homicide victims in NYC is still around ~85%. The past few years, the % of overall victims that were killed by strangers is around 5% [2].

So yes, there is still some uncertainty in the exact ratio of stranger/friend/unknown suspects. But still not rational to automatically assume that Lee was the victim of random crime.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/04/20/archives/murders-by-stran...

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/crime-without-punishmen...

[2] https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-stranger-o...

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#277

Post by bombcar » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

anonkogudhyfhhf wrote: post #210

I know in the last thread everyone said he was a hero. But I looked at his bio and his last job was a token selling scam. Maybe he made some enemies

I've always thought Marc Antony's speech was bullshit - "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interrèd with their bones."

It's way more common to ignore/forget/never mention again anything bad someone who died did.

Also the crypto world seems to be getting a bit stabby in various ways, as things come crashing down there may be repercussions. Unlikely in this case, probably. Much more likely to be domestic of some sort.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#278

Post by JieJie » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

bobobob420 wrote: post #200

jzellis wrote: post #187

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments…

“ Y'all colonized the poorest parts of the city and gave the poorest folks nowhere to go, and you still complain when they dare to pop up where you are.” Nope. One of the wealthiest cities in the world fails to look after its inhabitants. A failure of government

Y'all could both be a little bit right on this, you know.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#279

Post by Fauntleroy » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

The assumptions were incorrect, but the problem is still there. Just removes one data point.

I walk around SoMa and it's a common occurence to walk past someone (loudly) muttering to themselves that they're going to kill or attack someone. It's not a "political" thing anymore, the city desperately, desperately needs help.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#280

Post by carapace » Thu, Apr 13, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #204

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Shithole city is a bit extreme, don’t you think? I’d reserve that for very, very different places in the world.

Not really, SF is a shithole for a wealthy North American city. And I say that as someone who grew up here and still loves this place.

Story time. We literally had squatters break into and occupy a house two doors down from us, on Sunday (Easter). I was gardening in the front yard and seven people came and went over the course of the day. The police came in the afternoon but missed them, and they came back that night. It took until Tuesday to get them out and lock down the building so they couldn't get back in. A similar incident happened across the street a few months ago, the squatters even changed the lock on the front door.

I've lived here nearly half a century and I've never seen anything like this. Oh, also, last month, a guy came through and busted into several cars one morning. He got five or six of us.

- - - -

The thing is, SF has always been a crazy shitty town. It's also beautiful and fun, but this is the town that grew from the Gold Rush. It was built by 49ers and the folks who sold them shovels and booze and women. It's always been crazy here.

So when people point to SF as the paragon of Left-wing politics, they are ignoring that it's not really a functional city and never has been. The port is in the East Bay where the train tracks run, eh? No trains on the Golden Gate Bridge, eh? There's no economic center here (except the artifical banking nexus, but that doesn't need to stay here, SV bank was in SV.) And the weather never gets better. The entire rest of the state has better weather. The people who think SF has nice weather typically stay in one of the tiny microclimates that avoid the worst of the wind and fog.

Seriously, go look at the trees in Mission Rock. They are all at 45 degree angles because the damn wind never stops. They should have put wind turbines on the roofs of those nifty new condos (the ones with the sidewalks breaking away from the buildings.)

Oh man, I could go on and on about this town.

All I'm really getting at is that, if you know the history of San Francisco, you know that it's not really a left-wing exemplar, it's just a nuthouse, and always has been since the USA kicked out the Spanish. (What the Spanish did is the stuff of nightmares. Before that it was the Ohlone people here, and I don't know what they were like. There are still a few Ohlone people around but everybody is real careful not to mention them except in the past tense because it breaks the illusion of inclusive progressive politics. We still want to e.g. build apartment buildings on their old cemeteries and such.)