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Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#271

Post by ceejayoz »

gergi137 wrote: post #269
ceejayoz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so where is your proposal to limit the passengers of a self driving car That limit is in place for student drivers to limit distractions; it's a specific mitigation to a problem specific to them. FSD needs its own. > where is your proposal for compromise? I'd like to see safety data reporting requirements that come from regulators, not Tesla, whose self-reported cherry-picked data points I find quite suspect. (Exam…

I 100% agree with you that we should have regulators auditing and verifying safety information for autonomous systems. But I'd like to point out that the link you included is out-of-date. Tesla has continued to publish their autopilot safety numbers in their quarterly slide decks. Here is Q3 2022 for example, see page 10: https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/SVCPTV_2022_Q4_Quarterly_... Miles between accidents on Autop…

That’s the same old sketchy number they like to tout.

Autopilot can only be used in safer conditions, and if the car goes “whoops I’m out, take over” shortly before an accident that doesn’t count in that stat either.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#272

Post by ahahahahah »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81
InitialLastName wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capability implies that the car can do the thing (software included). Until the car can do it, it's all "hypothetical capability". Selling a "capability" that won't get delivered within the expected lifetime of the car is just marketing garbage.

> Capability implies that the car can do the thing (software included) It’s made clear that isn’t the definition of capability they’re using [1]. I am not a fan of the Autopilot branding. But I struggle to see how someone buys FSD capability, realises their mistake on delivery and is then unable to get restitution through either a return or a resale. [1] "the facility or potential for an indicated use or deployment,"…

Sure. In the same way that I have Olympic "capability".

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#273

Post by AlbertCory »

mchannon wrote: post #197
AlbertCory wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you're right, but the reason I know about them is that I do know a guy who used one, and got a "better" prison. No names, for obvious reasons.

While incarcerated, half the people "know a guy". Maybe the prison was "better", or maybe it was just a different mix of pros and cons. Not only was the advice I received unhelpful, following it actually made my stay longer. My family would have been better off taking the substantial amount of money and setting it on fire.

I would bet anything Holmes has hired one. Or several.

I have a feeling she will not do as well inside as Martha Stewart did. Too much ego.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#274

Post by anigbrowl »

falseeq wrote: post #232
anigbrowl wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really tired of people just treating words as meaningless attention hooks and then leaning on a unilaterally convenient redefinition of them.

I’m not totally defending Tesla’s mildly misleading advertising here. I’m saying it’s not fraud and not really comparable to the massive fraud committed by Holmes.

Fair enough. You're correct, I'm jus expressing my antipathy to marketing technique.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#275

Post by LadyCailin »

falseeq wrote: post #230
singleshot_ wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, welcome to hacker news. Why wouldn’t a buyer be justified in relying upon a sellers description of the goods for sale?

Because the more detailed description of the feature clearly explains what it does and doesn’t do. Say you sign a contract, one section is titled “Seller Assumes Liability for Injury” but then the text of that section lists some circumstances where they don’t. Totally fine and legal.

It’s closer to

Seller Assumes Liability for Injury†

†Seller Assumes No Liability for Injury

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#276

Post by gergi137 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #271
gergi137 wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% agree with you that we should have regulators auditing and verifying safety information for autonomous systems. But I'd like to point out that the link you included is out-of-date. Tesla has continued to publish their autopilot safety numbers in their quarterly slide decks. Here is Q3 2022 for example, see page 10: https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/SVCPTV_2022_Q4_Quarterly_... Miles between accidents on Autop…

That’s the same old sketchy number they like to tout. Autopilot can only be used in safer conditions, and if the car goes “whoops I’m out, take over” shortly before an accident that doesn’t count in that stat either.

It’s not an old number, it’s a new number reported every quarter.

But you’re right that comparing largely highway miles vs all miles isn’t completely fair. FSD on the other hand can be activated and used in most scenarios and has 3.2 million miles between accidents vs the US average of 500,000 miles. So still quite a bit safer but less so than autopilot.

As for autopilot deactivating right before an accident, if autopilot was active within 5 seconds of the accident it is still attributed to autopilot, not the human driver.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#277

Post by 00F_ »

ok_dad wrote: post #210
00F_ wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so when they introduced drive by wire, and just put it out there on the roads without telling anyone, that was reckless? or any of the countless other designs that have led us to the modern cars we have now? how about all the severe recalls, not over the air recalls that tesla gets press for but real safety issues? GM and the others have tons and tons of real physical safety recalls, way more than tesla, and thats no…

Well, drive by wire wasn't just put out there, it was tested on military jets for decades and the tech eventually got to cars. There are also testing rigs and failsafes for such designs, however Tesla is just putting a black-box AI on the roads in charge of massive vehicles. I'm not going to engage with someone like you any longer, though, as you're being really fucking rude.

[flagged]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#278

Post by 00F_ »

ceejayoz wrote: post #267
00F_ wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these compromises are productive and show that you do come from a place of intellectual honesty. if the federal government had been tasked with overseeing the early versions of fsd, it would have been swiftly shut down because of the nature of the federal government, not to mention the politics. but thanks to the private sector we now have modern fsd which is bar none the most advanced and capable self-driving soluti…

> your bio says 'fuck elon musk.' My Twitter bio does. Added shortly after he banned links to Mastodon, broke Tweetbot (and lied about them breaking the rules), and announced breaking changes to the Twitter APIs I use extensively at work with a few days warning.

you seem passionate and knowlegable about this so i will ask you. i want to know more about the API changes. detractors say that it was at best an irresponsible change to the API that inconvenienced companies that use it. proponents say that musk simply stopped making the API free which was always unsustainable and people should have known better. what was really going on?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#279

Post by s1artibartfast »

wpietri wrote: post #255
HelloMcFly wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like Holmes and am pleased she's getting some comeuppance, but I can play Devil's Advocate in this one space: maybe she always wanted kids, focused on her career (lol), then this all happened, XYZ. Holmes is 39 years old. If she really, truly wanted biological children then now was the time to make sure it happened. She's a villain, but she's also a complex human being that probably has multiple priorities, g…

I never said she didn't want children. She may well have. So what? She wanted investors' money, too. Having wants does not justify harm to others.

It is a tougher one than you'd think.

The harm is no greater than any other person that decides to have a child as a single parent.

The children will have a father, and a mother to visit until they are in their teens.

That is more family than a single woman who goes to the sperm bank to have children.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes loses bid to stay out of prison

#280

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ahahahahah wrote: post #272
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Capability implies that the car can do the thing (software included) It’s made clear that isn’t the definition of capability they’re using [1]. I am not a fan of the Autopilot branding. But I struggle to see how someone buys FSD capability, realises their mistake on delivery and is then unable to get restitution through either a return or a resale. [1] "the facility or potential for an indicated use or deployment,"…

Sure. In the same way that I have Olympic "capability".

> the same way that I have Olympic "capability"

You may. Not everyone does. That doesn’t mean everyone capable of Olympic greatness achieves it.

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