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“Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

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Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#271

Post by return_to_monke »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #57
stametseater wrote: post #5

What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. It seems to come entirely from propaganda on social media telling fat people what they want to believe.

I think there are several reasons: 1. Historically being fat was considered a sign of good health. Of course, this was during times of massive food scarcity and the definition of fat was probably very different from what we consider fat today. 2. Massive amounts of money involved in telling people to eat/drink more, and then spend more money in gyms and taking pills to lose that weight. As opposed to just eating less…

I think the 3rd point is different for each person. Some people do like "tough love" - being told that they are in a bad place and need to improve will motivate them.

Others, on the other hand, will be pushed further back into the hole by such talk. This is very individual.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#272

Post by gadders »

procinct wrote: post #191
gadders wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to lift weights more than you need to run long distance.

Cardio is certainly important for old age given how common heart disease is. Ideally you would train strength, cardio and mobility.

Agreed, in an ideal world you'd do them all. Cardio is useful but won't protect you from or prevent a fall. Strength training will.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#273

Post by csa »

remarkEon wrote: post #260
csa wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. Did you read the article? I can give you two simple examples: Look at any picture of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson when he has been ripped. Ditto with Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. BMI says these folks are either obese or severely obese. Extreme…

I’ll criticize the crudeness of BMI as a yardstick for fitness as much as the next guy, but absolutely no one is looking at Arnold’s BMI and thinking “huh, BMI says the terminator is obese therefore it’s okay for me to be obese”. They’re getting this idea from somewhere else, and that somewhere else is a nexus of social media and bizarre fat positivity propaganda that’s leaked out from obscure corners of society and…

Ok, what about my bmi?

The point in using extremes and then a more modest (and probably realistic) example of myself was that BMI is a potential trap for anyone who has muscle (even if they are, in fact, very fat). They will most likely be rated a category or two above where they should be, and a weight loss regimen for someone who is “extremely obese” versus someone who is merely “overweight” will probably look very different. Specifically, one will probably be a major intervention or lifestyle change, while the other is most likely a small/medium lifestyle change.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#274

Post by gadders »

david-gpu wrote: post #213
gadders wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are making a choice to be fat because they eat the quantity of food that creates that condition in their body. Nobody says two people should eat the same level of food. You should eat the appropriate amount for your body.

People, in the long term, eat as much as they need to not feel hungry. Whether they are slim or overweight. Asking people to ear less than they are eating now is thus asking them to be perpetually hungry. It can be done, even for a year or two if they have willpower, but eventually they will get sick of being cold, tired and irritated all the time --because that is what chronic hunger does to you-- and they will go b…

They can be perpetually hungry or perpetually unhealthy and obese. Choose your poison.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#275

Post by return_to_monke »

koonsolo wrote: post #250
csa wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. Did you read the article? I can give you two simple examples: Look at any picture of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson when he has been ripped. Ditto with Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. BMI says these folks are either obese or severely obese. Extreme…

What about something like ABSI? https://www.omnicalculator.com/health/a-body-shape-index

There are multiple such measures. Ones I could think of right off the bat is hip/waist ratio, BAI, or simply waist circumference.

Those all fail to reliably predict body fatness in all populations.

All of those measurements should be taken in context with other health signs, like blood pressure, fasting glucose and maybe eating/exercise habits as well.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#276

Post by iLoveOncall »

mancerayder wrote: post #248
iLoveOncall wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this matters when it comes to pure weight. You can eat the most healthy diet in the world and still be massively obese. On the other hand I have successfully lost 100 lbs in 6 months in the past, while eating fast food daily. I won't discuss the "healthiness" aspect of it, but losing weight is ONLY a matter of calories.

Then you're lucky. I a) intermittent fast, so never eat breakfast b) never eat dessert c) don't snack d) lift weights 3x a week and do other sports once a week e) don't eat fast food, and often skip appetizers, and stick to protein and veggies. If I don't do these things I get fat fast. So my sympathy for 'unlucky' is minimal; I'm sure only a small percentage of people suffer from such a poor metabolism that anything…

You're lying to yourself. Stop doing all of that, start counting calories and you will not gain any weight.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#277

Post by gadders »

manmal wrote: post #243
gadders wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Nobody gets fat without over-eating. Walking and exercise in general make less difference to weight loss than diet. People know what food is healthy. If they choose not to do it, it's on them.

I agree with the part that diet is way more important than walking and exercise, in the short term. But not exercising can lead to obesity long term. Here are some other things that can cause obesity / type 2 diabetes aside from dietary choices: - Microbiome (eg due to bad microbiome passed on at birth): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27255389/ - Sitting the whole day - Circadian rhythm disturbance, eg through shift…

I would be hugely surprised if there are any conditions that can cause obesity without eating excess calories unless the people concerned have learnt to create excess calories by photosynthesis or something.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#278

Post by inglor_cz »

amrocha wrote: post #224
gadders wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed. Nobody gets fat without over-eating. Walking and exercise in general make less difference to weight loss than diet. People know what food is healthy. If they choose not to do it, it's on them.

You're not providing citations either. Get off your fat hating high horse. Walking and exercise make a HUGE difference in average weight. Just look at Canada, a place mostly analogous to the US, but with way more walkable cities and better public transit. They don't have this problem. Regardless of how people get fat, we know for a fact that it's nearly impossible to get back to a healthy weight. Children of fat pare…

"Walking and exercise make a HUGE difference in average weight. "

Interesting. I like to walk generally, but in the last year, with a fresh Garmin watch prodding me into more steps, I increased my walking by at least 50 per cent. I actually made some 5 million steps last year, at least 7 km every day, in every weather.

My weight fluctuated a bit, but basically didn't change. I am not fat, but I have some amount of belly fat I don't like.

What really changed and improved was my immune system. I am not totally immune to everything, but I tolerate a lot more environmental distress (cold, hot, sweating, getting soaked by rain etc.) before encountering first symptoms of having a cold.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#279

Post by csa »

birksherty wrote: post #261
csa wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What interests me is how anybody could ever come to believe otherwise. The contrary belief flies in the face of all common sense, popular experience and medical science. Did you read the article? I can give you two simple examples: Look at any picture of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson when he has been ripped. Ditto with Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime. BMI says these folks are either obese or severely obese. Extreme…

Weight being mostly of muscle is different than mostly of fat. When we say obese, it's the later one.

> When we say obese, it's the later one.

Really?

Would you mind telling that to my former doctor who wrote down in my chart that I was “obese” just based on my height, weight, and a quick visual scan? She was starting into “substantial lifestyle change” talks before I showed her my data.

She didn’t reverse course until I showed her my dexa scan and told her my diet and exercise regimen.

My point is that there are plenty of people who are labeled a category or two worse than they actually are. Yes, many people are actually obese — I get that — but people who are naturally muscular quickly grow tired of (and sometimes numb to) being categorized as worse than they actually are.

Folks who talk about obesity, especially medical folks and media folks, would do well to be more nuanced in their analysis and discussion of the data.

Re: “Healthy obesity” doesn’t exist. It is unequivocally bad for you

#280

Post by gadders »

_gabe_ wrote: post #226
dudul wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in 3. Is there any research or data about that? I do not encourage fat shaming at all, but I can also imagine that in some cases shame may be a powerful motivator for some people. Is there hard data showing that it actually makes it harder?

Just some anecdata here, but I was toeing the line between overweight and obese about a year ago. I read David Goggins book Can't Hurt Me , and one of the things he talked about was having a note in the mirror reminding you of your goals (real novel concept ikr?). Anyways, the way he phrased it was something like, "If you're fat and don't want to be, right down the raw truth on that note and read it every morning, th…

Good going mate.
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