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HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

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Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#271

Post by arbitrage »

Algemarin wrote: post #29

What I find notable whenever something like this is in the news, is that these user-hostile features don't just manifest through abiogenesis, or spontaneous generation. User-hostile features are created by people. Just once, I would like to see an AMA by someone who was directly involved in creating a user-hostile feature - whether it's locking down printers or any of the countless other examples that come up on a we…

I'll bite. I've implemented user hostile features before.

> what goes on in the heads of the people who make these kinds of features.

The people who make the decision to implement these kinds of features are bad people. Full stop. They want to punish people, and believe a technological solution provides a fool-proof way to punish the people around them. It's about control, and spreading hurt around. It's about being able to exert control on others, without them having the ability to push back. It is evil, and I hate it.

I have implemented user-hostile features in the past because it was my job at the time, and I would be fired if I didn't.

When I've had to create this sort of anti-feature, I do a shitty job on purpose. It barely works. There are workarounds that defeat the punitive nature of the horrible thing I've had to create. It'll work on paper, but be shit in production. In every case I've had to do this, the people who ask for the anti-features are not capable of testing that they work right. They gleefully take their new pain toy and go off to hurt people with it. I never hear from them again. Then I start updating my resume and begin to look for a new job.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#272

Post by wil421 »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #258
wil421 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you drastically underestimate Oracle and SAP in the enterprise world. There’s not many companies that can provide all the mundane business management tools for a huge variety of business like an ATM manufacturer, an oil and gas company, a massive hotel chain, or a financial services company. The tech is not sexy by any means but it can run businesses from top to bottom.

Provided you hire an entire team of consultants for years until they change all your workflow to adapt to SAP/Oracle, then code specific routines for each role in your org because their tool cannot do most of what they say it does. At this point, you have a completely custom stack that could have been developed entirely for half the price, that would run faster, without licensing cost. Money you could invest in hirin…

> At this point, you have a completely custom stack that could have been developed entirely for half the price, that would run faster, without licensing cost. Money you could invest in hiring a company that will actually provide you support instead sending you interns they bill as experts.

This isn’t true for a majority of companies outside of FAANG otherwise the majority of companies would dump Oracle and SAP. A lot of executives hate them with passion and would love to dump Oracles horrible licensing models. They pay for CYA and the ability to point a finger at the vendor instead of themselves.

I went though a merger between two Fortune 500 financial services companies. One had dumped vendors 5 years prior and they were foaming at the mouth to get off all of their homegrown apps. The reality is a lot of companies are going to off shore this type of development and support to SE Asia for bottom dollar body shops.

The consultant thing is absolutely true for enterprise software, not just ERPs. I’ve seen it with Salesforce, Workday, ServiceNow, ERP/Oracle. Pretty much anything KPMG or Accenture are building.

However if you get top tier consultant lift companies or professionally services from the SAAS vendor it is much less likely to be greenhorn college grads.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#273

Post by tracker1 »

This behavior is just plain bad. While I have used HP Laser printers for decades now (current is about 8-9yo color) and tended to stick with HP high capacity toner, I don't like locking these things down any more than they already are. That said, I've only had to swap toner about once every 5 years or so with how little I actually print.

Brother is probably where I'll go for my next device.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#274

Post by m463 »

kappuchino wrote: post #268
m463 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a brother HL-2360DW circa 2017, with a new brother large-size authentic toner cartridge. I never hooked it to the internet, never updated the firmware. And it started saying low toner even though I've put (far?) less than 250 sheets through it. There was a way to turn off the low toner warnings, I did it, and seem to be ok, but it makes me wonder. EDIT: wow, it sells for $449 on amazon. I paid $115 in 2017.

OT: Quick question - does this model (HL-2360...) have a physical on/off switch? I run two Brother HL-2130 series which I turn on and off with a relais to save energy for standby.

It does not have a switch like I think you like - a switch near the power cord that cuts all power to the printer.

It does have a power button (near the wifi button) but I expect that is a soft switch of some sort.

That said, I plug peripherals like this into a power strip with individual switches for each outlet.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#275

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

passwordoops wrote: post #217
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many people willing working jobs that explicitly make the world a worse place to live and we wonder why everything is going to shit.

For the record I disagreed with the decision, and eventually left them shortly after (not just over this) but you're putting a very unfair statement out there. First, it's basically every company that's doing this, and it's the logical next step when growth is the target. Even at the time, they used Apple as an example to be emulated with their anti-consumer practices. Which feeds the next point: the problem ultimate…

If you're legitimately going to be on the street if you don't work this job, that's what malicious compliance is for. Sabotage this bullshit, if you can. Put in a backdoor and release the details online. If you can't, well, that's a tough place to be and I won't judge, but the majority of the time people in a position to make the world worse aren't.

Your reasoning illustrates the problem of "no individual snowflake is responsible for the avalanche". When you're making fat stacks it is a very convenient narrative to tell yourself and perpetuates the status-quo of suck.

We don't have to keep going along with this shit.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#276

Post by BiteCode_dev »

wil421 wrote: post #272
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provided you hire an entire team of consultants for years until they change all your workflow to adapt to SAP/Oracle, then code specific routines for each role in your org because their tool cannot do most of what they say it does. At this point, you have a completely custom stack that could have been developed entirely for half the price, that would run faster, without licensing cost. Money you could invest in hirin…

> At this point, you have a completely custom stack that could have been developed entirely for half the price, that would run faster, without licensing cost. Money you could invest in hiring a company that will actually provide you support instead sending you interns they bill as experts. This isn’t true for a majority of companies outside of FAANG otherwise the majority of companies would dump Oracle and SAP. A lot…

> They pay for CYA and the ability to point a finger at the vendor instead of themselves.

That's a very good point. Nobody every been fired to buy IBM is still a stong motto as ever, except for the IBM part.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#277

Post by CatWChainsaw »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #126

What's amazing about all it is that HP being hostile to its own customers is nothing new: - In 2005, they had one printer that refused to print if the cartridge was past a certain date, even if full. Several also underestimated the volume of ink in cartridges and told you it was empty when not. - In 2007, HP refused to honor hardware warranty if you install any other OS on their laptop. - in 2010, HP refused to provi…

>in 2020 they hardcoded the path to the EFI of their laptop to be windows only.

So you can't install Linux at all on HPs post-2020?

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#278

Post by fudgefactorfive »

jstanley wrote: post #228
passwordoops wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an experience in another industry similar to what printers are doing. We used to use standard, easy-to-source-from-3rd-party 6-port valves on one of our instruments. Customers loved it, since the valve would need servicing now and then with replacement parts but the company president only saw lost recurring service and support revenue. To complement that perception, the VP Engineering decided "our systems shoul…

How can it be the exact same valve, and yet also be cheaper, and yet also perform worse?

Not op but I imagine:

Increase tolerances to reduce cost at scale, sometimes doesn't fit perfectly or requires a little jiggling to line up right.

But now you can't do the jiggle or try to manually quickly realign it, instead you need to call a tech to do it for X bucks and a wait time of longer than a few seconds.

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#279

Post by kappuchino »

m463 wrote: post #274
kappuchino wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT: Quick question - does this model (HL-2360...) have a physical on/off switch? I run two Brother HL-2130 series which I turn on and off with a relais to save energy for standby.

It does not have a switch like I think you like - a switch near the power cord that cuts all power to the printer. It does have a power button (near the wifi button) but I expect that is a soft switch of some sort. That said, I plug peripherals like this into a power strip with individual switches for each outlet.

OT: Thank you so much for the reply. One more question: Does the Printer remember its Power state - like if the relais cuts it off and then it turns on again once it regains power? That would be super awesome to know and something I could not research on the net :-(. I'm happy with my HL-2130 (dirt cheap repleacement for drum (15€) and toner (10€)) for now, but some day in the future ...

Re: HP have updated their printers to ban ‘non-HP’ cartridges

#280

Post by drstewart »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #225
drstewart wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you going to be the one that's going to open and run a printer company at a loss for the "societal good", or are you just expecting others to take on that burden?

Who said anything about a loss? We allow corporations to make a profit as motivation to actually do things, but if the things they are doing are not in the best interests of society then we should dismantle them. The phrasing of your statement is quite illustrative of the problem, I think. We have had it drilled into our heads that society should serve the corporation, which exists only for profit, and that this is n…

"Dismantle" "excise" - funny words for unemploying thousands of people because you don't like their approach to selling printer ink.

I think we should "excise" cancers that are callous about sweeping societal and economic effects based on their personal whims.

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