Dumb question: why would anyone sign-up for a beta program, that could kill you if gone wrong?
(maybe people just don't think through ramifications)
Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
271–280 of 864 posts
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#272> The FSD Beta system may cause crashes by allowing the affected vehicles to: “act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution,” according to the notice on the website of the National…
As a human being and motor vehicle operator of many decades I have done all of the above, multiple times (very infrequently), both on purpose and on accident. I’m looking forward to the days when self-driving vehicles are normal, and human drivers are the exception. Until then, I’m glad companies and regulators are holding the robots to a higher standard than the meat computers.
> As a human being and motor vehicle operator of many decades I have done all of the above, multiple times
Time to stop driving. That is not normal
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#273Meanwhile, the only actual L3 capable car is a Mercedes. Plenty of people will argue that AP is actually superior, but I don't think there's any way to say that for sure, given the tight constraints Mercedes has put on their driver assistance in order to lower the liability enough to make L3 not a bankruptcy event. For certain, however, they are more confident in their technology than Tesla is, otherwise Tesla would…
Calling it L3 capable is like saying Tesla is Full Self Driving.
Neither is true, both are marketing.
> but I don't think there's any way to say that for sure
I mean yes there is. If you want to have an object test where you drop a car anywhere in the world and see if it can get somewhere else, then clearly one is more useful then the other.
In basketball they say 'the best ability is availability'. In terms of that AP is in a totally different dimension. AP has been driven for 100s of millions of miles by know, it must be a crazy high number by now. Mercedes L3 system has barley driven at all, its available in very few cars.
The only way you can reasonably compare the Mercedes L3 system is if you limit the comparison to the extremely limited cases where the Mercedes L3 system is available. If you compare them there, I would think they aren't that different.
> otherwise Tesla would release an L3 capable car too
No, because making something L3 in a extremely limited selection of places is simply not something Tesla is interested in doing. Doing so would be a lot of work that they simply don't consider worth doing when they are trying to solve the larger problem.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#274There really needs to be a distinction between an actual recall (my Model S had one to change the latch on the frunk) and this type of "recall" that is nothing more than an OTA software update.
I used to be on the other side of this, but now I agree with you.
The official meaning of a recall is providing a record of a defect, informing the public that the product is defective, and making the manufacturer financially liable for either remediating the defect or providing a refund. However, the colloquial definition of a “recall” now means a product must be physically returned.
To better represent the nature of a “recall” they should instead call it something like “notice of defect”. In the case of safety critical problems like here they should use a term like “notice of life-endangering defect” to properly inform the consumers that the defect is actively harmful instead of merely being a failure to perform as advertised.
tl;dr They should change the terminology from “recall” to “Notice of Life-Endangering Defect”
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#275I have a Model 3, and was excited to get the FSD beta access about a month ago. I don't use it super regularly, but it's neat. This morning I tried to turn it on, and the car immediately veered left into the oncoming lane on a straight, 2 lane road. Fortunately, there were no other vehicles nearby. I immediately turned it off in the settings, and have no intention of re-enabling.
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
FSD Beta is a free[1] opt-in beta.
You have to basically drive like a grandpa for a few months to even be eligible. They give you a driving score, and if you take all the fun out of driving a Tesla, then you might become eligible for FSD Beta.
I spent months trying, and never got my driving score to the point of qualifying for FSD Beta. I think you need to have of a score of 98 or 99 (and I was in the 70s).
[1] The Beta is free (or rather, only available) if you have regular FSD. Regular FSD costs $15,000.
Regular FSD, otoh, is really not that impressive. Especially in comparison to Enhanced Autopilot. The extra value add is minimal.
Enhanced Autopilot already has all the gimmicky features you might want to use to show off to people (like Smart Summon, Autopark, etc), and it only costs $6,000.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
I would suggest reading all the disclaimers and screens one has to review (or skip, at their own peril) in order to actually get access to FSD Beta. You would likely not believe a Class Action lawsuit is a cakewalk if you read those screens...
With Tesla's army of lawyers it'll never be a cakewalk, but I can't imagine even miles of T&C can remove a company's responsibility for your car throwing you directly into oncoming traffic, not to mention the potential victim's in the other vehicles.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both of my cars patched last night with “Bug fixes” as the changelog. I don’t think I’ve seen an update that only said that before. I suspect that was this “recall”. If that’s the case, then the recall (patch) is probably mostly done by now.
I had that update message, too, though I thought I was just installing that “adjustments to the steering wheel warmer” update. I don’t have FSD.
Crash -> fire -> steering wheel is warmed.
Could still be related.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#278FSD beta is a super weird beast.
I managed to go in New York with 0 interventions to my friend 3-4 miles away one day,
yet another day it can act stupid, and barely handle a trivial intersection.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I’m actually afraid to drive behind a Tesla and either keep extra distance or change lanes if possible. Irrespective of the Teslas or FSD: If you're afraid of an accident due to the vehicle in front of you braking regardless of the circumstances, then you're following too closely. It doesn't matter if the braking event is anticipated or unexpected. If you're not confident in your ability to avoid an accident if the…
> If you're afraid of an accident due to the vehicle in front of you braking regardless of the circumstances, then you're following too closely. I know what you're saying, but that is not what I'd meant. Also, I don't follow too closely. The difference here is that almost always a driver will brake depending on the happenings in front of them. So, if you pay attention to not only the car in front, but in front of the…
> Basically based on your driving experience you can predict a little.
Yes, we all do that AND you're using that predictability to take liberties in safety such as following too closely. FSD's unpredictability exposes the vulnerability in your driving process and makes you feel uneasy.
You (and everyone else) can follow too closely AND FSD can be an unsafe steaming pile of crap. It's not an either or situation.
Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you planning to join a class action lawsuit so you can get your money back?
FSD Beta is a free[1] opt-in beta. You have to basically drive like a grandpa for a few months to even be eligible. They give you a driving score, and if you take all the fun out of driving a Tesla, then you might become eligible for FSD Beta. I spent months trying, and never got my driving score to the point of qualifying for FSD Beta. I think you need to have of a score of 98 or 99 (and I was in the 70s). [1] The B…
FSD Beta still costs $15k just to be part of the beta program.
Yes, you have to pay $15k just to apply to the beta program, and you still may not get accepted into the program.