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So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

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Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What open source needs is to be completely owned by private companies?

i'm not sure i understand what you mean. how's rails 'completely owned by private companies' for example? i'm not sure you wish to imply that private companies hiring and paying people to work full-time on open source equates to 'owning' such software. there's open source software started by and owned by private companies (the go programming language, apple's swift, meta's react, among other). regardless, they have b…

The direction that rails goes in is the direction that Basecamp wants it to go in. Basecamp is a privately owned company. Who do you think owns the IP?

Look, no judgment for open source maintainers who take a job in order to get paid. But the idea that this is the only viable model for open source is abhorrent.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#272

The patience and resilience this man must have. I would have left Foss development way earlier if I was in his place. He has every right to just deprecate or remove the package from npm and give everyone the middle finger.

But he didn't. He posted that classic XKCD comic about critical infrastructure. So while thousands of principal engineers at companies around the world hold meetings today on what to do about this critical bus factor issue, I'm going to do something else. I'm going to go outside, drop off some library books (i don 't always finish them, that's ok), and wonder what critical infrastructure component exists in my life t…

Yeah, I have to respect how hard he sticked to his conviction. I truly hope that companies, especially bigger ones, show more willingness to donate some money to FOSS projects that they use. Iw ould would still be cheaper than to buy some expensive enterprise solution, and idk maybe they can write it off as donations on their taxes and get some good PR.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#273

In my unasked-for opinion, he should absolutely give up on this project, and take a salaried job that'll let him support his family and not have to deal with the entitlement issues and lack of perspective the community evidently has. If half of what's in this post is true, he's shown admirable restraint: I'd have burned it all down the first time someone got pissy about a free thing I gave them.

Yes. But I think it also shows a common misunderstanding of "open source" (and even "free software"). What he did was incredibly valuable to a huge number of successful people and corporations. But no one owes him anything. That's the point of open source. If they did owe him something, they wouldn't have used it. They used it because it was great, it was established/known, it was available with no strings attached w…

> But no one owes him anything.

I think the disagreement here will continue indefinitely because it is a question of (personal and professional) ethics. Ethics doesn't necessarily offer easy answers, just sometimes hard questions. In every discussion like this on HN you see the direct conflict of several competing Ethical Frameworks that people choose to live by which is why the discussion will likely always recur and it will always seem like two or more teams talking past each other.

"What do we owe to each other?" is a massive, hard ethical question. It's not just an easy economic question with an answer of "well he did the work for free, so obviously it is priced at free" though many ethical frameworks, especially on HN, happily stop there. Some ethical frameworks, on the other hand, don't believe there is any such thing as "free labor", just "exploited labor" and find guilt in every bit of open source usage, expect some amount "owed" in backpay to eventually pay back. Some of those same ethical frameworks still feel that "open source" is an ideal, a community good, but also think that for the health of the community as a whole, some support needs to be given to individuals in that community when/where/as they need it, for the good of the whole, and that both things can be true: "open source creates good software" and "open source sometimes creates the conditions to exploit labor (and we owe it to ourselves to mitigate that)".

I can't tell anyone what their ethical framework should be, just that this discussion will likely remain an impasse because it is about personal and professional ethics. How much I feel that I owe the most exploited of the workers in our industry, is something that keeps me up at night sometimes, and that guilt doesn't come from "nowhere" and I'm well aware of the economics and the license agreements in play: that guilt comes from the ethical frameworks that I hold dear and am unlikely to waver on.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#274
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not like when a company the size of Spotify uses core-js they just add it to their project without thinking. No, they know how important the project is. The devs at Spotify know how important that project is. But the people who control the money, middle and upper management, might now even know what Javascript is. Why would they spend money for something that's free? They're under pressure to cut costs anyway.…

> Why would they spend money for something that's free? They're under pressure to cut costs anyway. But isn't this like saying, "what's an AWS? Why do we need that thing?" Is there really no one technical saying, "look we need to offer support to core-js because core-js is the software that ensures our website works for everyone using it". And you're a large company who project depends on core-js (like Spotify) it ju…

AWS provides an invoice structure that accountants understand how to navigate. Open Source mostly doesn't.

I know this is why some of the "contribution bundling" approaches seem to have good merit for big Enterprise that treat Open Source a bit like a "stock portfolio" and bundle a number of open source sponsorships into a single invoice that you can present to upper management as "IT says we need to pay this bill each month because it somehow helps keep all the software lights on" without needing to get into the specifics of which software does what or how much you rely on it (or the complexity of your dependency trees).

I've heard it's a priority for parts of GitHub to make such "automated open source sponsorship bundles" easier to sell to upper management and smarter in how they manage their funds for the good of the open source community and wish them luck in those endeavors.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was imprisoned because he hit pedestrians and one died. I don't know about you, but the way I drive I wouldn't hit pedestrians if they were laying in the road, maybe if they ran out in front of me. It doesn't sound like he has any sympathy for killing a woman at all, so the "woe is me I'm not a governor's son so I went to jail when others wouldn't have" is distasteful at best.

I live in the middle of a medium sized city in the UK, and drive late at night a couple of times a year for various reasons (day out in another city, late gig, visiting friends, etc). On pretty much every artery road here, if someone was sitting in the middle of the road and I was travelling at 60mph, there's absolutely no chance whatsoever that I would see them. For example, see [0] - this is a major road within a f…

I drive in Edinburgh all the time. Not a single time have I ever driven where I couldn't either see what was up a head, or where my headlights didn't illuminate far enough out that I could not perform a safety stop. If that means you have to drive at 40 on an unlit national road instead of 60, then you drive at 40.

There simply is no excuse where "I didn't see them" is acceptable unless they literally run out into the road, or appear from behind a blind corner (and you should slow down around blind corners anyway for this reason).

I've never once been in an accident, I have seen plenty of bad drivers around Edinburgh. The limit is not a target, but a legal maximum. You drive to your conditions.

Anything else is just blaming the dead manslaughter victim. Which the author seems to do, or at least has zero sympathy for killing a woman and is salty at the "idiot laws" that put him in jail for ending someone else's life.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was imprisoned because he hit pedestrians and one died. I don't know about you, but the way I drive I wouldn't hit pedestrians if they were laying in the road, maybe if they ran out in front of me. It doesn't sound like he has any sympathy for killing a woman at all, so the "woe is me I'm not a governor's son so I went to jail when others wouldn't have" is distasteful at best.

> "at 3 AM, I was driving home. Two deadly drunk 18-years-old girls in dark clothes decided somehow to crawl across a poorly lit highway" There but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford.

You drive to your conditions, there's no excuse. If you are driving so fast at night that your lights don't illuminate enough ahead to perform a safety stop then you are driving too fast.

It's astounding that anyone defends this person for the manslaughter, and blames the women he harmed, and the completely lack of empathy... "deadly drunk", one of them is now, because of the author.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#277
This was depressing. I read through most of the post.

I would never recommend sacrificing your personal life and well being for the sake of opensource.

Use opensource as an outlet of your creativity and urge to create something, but don't let it destroy you.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But I think it also shows a common misunderstanding of "open source" (and even "free software"). What he did was incredibly valuable to a huge number of successful people and corporations. But no one owes him anything. That's the point of open source. If they did owe him something, they wouldn't have used it. They used it because it was great, it was established/known, it was available with no strings attached w…

For a while it was a trend for people to use userscripts to delete their old comments on various social media sites after a certain amount of time. I think this practice is unfair, because the user gets the benefits of participating in open conversation but tries not to pay the (IMO absolutely minuscule) costs in terms of privacy. I see a lot of open source use the same way. Companies use open-source contributions bu…

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Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#279
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point of large open source projects like this is to parlay it into career opportunities Yeah, you are in the minority with that belief.

>> The point of large open source projects like this is to parlay it into career opportunities > Yeah, you are in the minority with that belief. The OP does have a platform, thanks to his work. If he did not diligently pour his creative talent into core-js & without it's widespread usage, he would probably not have the audience & we wouldn't be having a discussion about him or his situation. He does have a platform w…

I want to follow up with a couple more thoughts as Open Source developers, particularly important ones, earning a decent living is important:

The OP author deserves to earn a living for himself & his family. He has put in many hours of hard work & has proven to be selfless in doing so. The question is, if one dedicates one's life to Open Source development, how will one earn a living?

My contention about relying on donations is that donations are not very reliable. They require frequent PR to bring attention & the will of the donators. I'm confident that this post will bring in a rush of donations, but for how long? I hope Mr. Pushkarev can find a sustainable way to earn the living that he deserves. I just don't think relying primarily on donations is going to get him (or any Open Source developer) there. He has a platform & attention & I hope people in a better position than myself can rally around that to offer him sustainable opportunities. Who know where he will take it from here. I'm optimistic that some great opportunities will emerge from this.

Re: So what’s next (personal news from developer of popular CoreJS polyfill)

#280
post #69

I do understand that not a lot of people here really understand the sheer direness of his situation. He stuck in Russia because of unsettled problems regarding his conviction. He almost certainly cannot immigrate into most of the countries because of said conviction - to have a work permit one have to provide a certificate of good conduct. He is cut off most options to receive money from abroad and several means to r…

HN is a little bit more “filtered” place: on Reddit and Twitter there are enough people who hate him just for the sake of hatred. He is Russian - they call him “fascist”. He has a road accident - they are intentionally omitting a little detail that a victim was crawling the road at night. I didn't know about the memes and Twitter jokes. Even after that post, people still try to blame him. I’m pretty sure this situati…

> a victim was crawling the road at night

Is that verifiable? Because...

> In November 2019, Denis Pushkarev, maintainer of the popular core-js library, lost an appeal to overturn an 18-month prison sentence imposed for driving his motorcycle into two pedestrians, killing one of them.

https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/26/corejs_maintainer_jai...

Unfortunately Russia judiciary system is far from ideal and fair but better to trust that system than to take his word as truth.

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