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ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

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Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#271
Xerox is cool but I'd have proposed another analogy. Suppose you need to transfer your valuable knowledge to the next generation, but you don't have any durable medium, nor widespread literacy, for this matter. On the other hand, you have respect and the attention of the youth. So you encode the most important parts into an epic poem, and you try to get your students to memorize it. You can't know for sure that it won't mutate after you're not there any more – and indeed, it will; odds are, you are only passing what you've heard yourself, as well as you can, already with some embellishment and updates.

For the bigger part of our history, we haven't had access to lossless transmission of substantial information. We still don't for many cases that matter most – any verbalized opinion can be recorded for all eternity, but is that really what you know, and are you sure that's the best way to pass it on? Experts die and not infrequently take their know-how and unique knacks with them, even as they've shared millions of imperishable words with the rest of us - but sometimes their students make progress in their own ways. In fact, greats like Socrates believed that writing is bad precisely because it offers us an easy hack for substitution of understanding with lossless recall. [1]

Lossy learning is just the normal mode of human learning; lossy recall is our normal way of recall. It's not a gimmick, nor a way to show off originality.

> Perhaps arithmetic is a special case, one for which large-language models are poorly suited. Is it possible that, in areas outside addition and subtraction, statistical regularities in text actually do correspond to genuine knowledge of the real world? > I think there’s a simpler explanation.

The original explanation is the simpler one. Consider any run-of-the-mill error of arithmetic reasoning by ChatGPT, e.g. in [2]:

> Shaquille O'Neal is taller than Yao Ming. Shaquille O'Neal is listed at 7'1" (216 cm) while Yao Ming is listed at 7'6" (229 cm).

Madness of course. But if we consult with the OpenAI tokenizer[3], we'll see that this is a yet another issue of BPE encoding. '216' is a single token [20666], and '229' is the token [23539] – those are not ordinal values but IDs on the nominal scale of token alphabet. '2' '21', '29' are [17], [1433] and [1959] respectively. While we're at it, 'tall' is [35429] whereas 'Tall' is two tokens, [51, 439]. Good luck learning arithmetic robustly with this nonsense. But it may well be possible to learn how to make corny metaphors – this is just a more forgiving arena.

> If the output of ChatGPT isn’t good enough for GPT-4, we might take that as an indicator that it’s not good enough for us, either.

Or we might think a bit about the procedure of RLHF and understand that these models are already intentionally trained with their own output. This scene is moving fast.

I think the lesson here, as pointed out by one of the top comments, is that the culture of literary excellence is indeed at risk; but mainly because it's so vastly insufficient to provide even shallow domain understanding. Writing well, mashing concepts together, is worth nothing when it can be mass-produced by language models. Actually investigating the domain, even when you feel it's beneath you, is the edge of human intelligence.

1: https://fs.blog/an-old-argument-against-writing/

2: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/chatgpt-update-improved-...

3: https://platform.openai.com/tokenizer

Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#272

> ChatGPT is so good at this form of interpolation that people find it entertaining: they’ve discovered a “blur” tool for paragraphs instead of photos, and are having a blast playing with it. “‘blur’ tool for paragraphs” is such a good way of describing the most prominent and remarkable skill of ChatGPT. It is fun, but so obviously trades off against what makes paragraphs great. It is apt that this essay against Chat…

> ChatGPT smears are amusing, but they are probably also yet another nail in the coffin of the literary society.

As the author (Ted Chiang!!) notes, ChatGPT3 will be yet another nail in the coffin of ChatGPT5. At some point, OpenAI will find it impossible to find untainted training data. The whole thing will become a circular human centipede and die of malnutrition. Apologies for the mental image.

Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case folks don't know who he is, Ted Chiang wrote the short story collection "Stories of your Life and Others", and one of the stories was "Story of your Life", on which the movie Arrival was based.

It is an amazing book, not just for science fiction fans. The first story, "Tower of Babylon" somehow is like a science fiction story but based on ancient people's cosmology. Great book.

The stories are insanely creative and leave you thinking: Hell is the absence of God is a fantastic genre-bender I can imagine few other authors writing. Exhalation is also great, but it's in a different anthology.

Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#275
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This has nothing to do with "looking smarter". It has to do with being reliably proficient at both translating and synthesizing. I think the author's point is about how people perceive lossy text output differently than they perceive lossy image output. Language is a pretty precise symbolic information medium, and our perception of it is based in large part on both our education and what we believe makes humans uni…

I don't think "lossy text" is a useful term because it conflates with th*s k*nd *f l*ss* t*xt as well. Lossy compression is designed to be as reversible as it can be to a given threshold. That's not how ChatGPT was either designed or works in practice. There are definitely a lot of mathematical similarities between the two, I won't deny that. Would "partial knowledge compression" be a better term? Partial knowledge o…

To me, "lossy compression" vs "Partial knowledge compression" sounds like six vs a half-dozen. Whatever you call it, I think the author was writing more about how we perceive the results generated from a language-compression model vs an image compression model.

Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#276

> ChatGPT is so good at this form of interpolation that people find it entertaining: they’ve discovered a “blur” tool for paragraphs instead of photos, and are having a blast playing with it. “‘blur’ tool for paragraphs” is such a good way of describing the most prominent and remarkable skill of ChatGPT. It is fun, but so obviously trades off against what makes paragraphs great. It is apt that this essay against Chat…

That reminds me... There is a interestingly relevant japaneese phrase for, to put it nicely, not a bright or sharp person: baka. Supposedly, if I'm remembering last discussion with a japaneese speaker correctly, the same stem is used for "blur", or "blurry" (bokeh, bokeshi). Which is kind of interesting parallel here

"baka" is a very common word for "stupid". It doesn't have much to do with blurriness. The weeaboos of HN ought to know this.

Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#277

> ChatGPT is so good at this form of interpolation that people find it entertaining: they’ve discovered a “blur” tool for paragraphs instead of photos, and are having a blast playing with it. “‘blur’ tool for paragraphs” is such a good way of describing the most prominent and remarkable skill of ChatGPT. It is fun, but so obviously trades off against what makes paragraphs great. It is apt that this essay against Chat…

Why is this so hard to read?

Re: ChatGPT is a blurry JPEG of the web

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what makes AlphaZero's recursion work is the objective evaluation provided by the game rules. Language models have no access to any such thing. I wouldn't even count user-based metrics of "was this result satisfactory": that still doesn't measure truth. I generally respect the heck out of Chiang but I think it's silly to expect anyone to be happy feeding a language model's output back into it, unless that out…

I don't expect it'll work for everything: as you say, for many topics truth must be measured out in the real world. But, for a subset of topics, say, math and logic, a minimal set of core principles (axioms) is theoretically sufficient to derive the rest. For such topics, it might actually make sense to feed the output of a (very, very advanced) LLM back into itself. No reference to the real world is needed - only th…

> Next, what's to say that a model can't "build theory", as hypothesized in this article

Well for one thing it would stop being a language model; I used that term very deliberately. It would be a different kind of model, not one that (AFAIK) we know how to build yet.

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