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Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

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Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#271

Post by jclulow »

lhorie wrote: post #258
automatic6131 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>when COVID hit and tech companies saw large surges because investors and CEOs saw industries leaping 5-10 years into the future overnight, they hired to support that growth Yes, they all egregiously failed. A massive, widespread, collective failure for which they should lose their jobs, as many other people do. On the face of it, it was obvious, that's not even hindsight bias - it was the topsy turvy world that bad…

I'm seeing a lot of this "screw up = get fired" narrative lately and I think it's a bit ironic. Talk about screwing up in engineering contexts and suddenly the tune changes: now people will talk about improving processes, blameless postmortems, and how the individual is not at fault. Imagine a youtuber saying googlers should be fired because some decision was made that affected the youtuber's income negatively. Or im…

I suspect people would be more sympathetic to the plight of CEOs if they didn't make hundreds or thousands of times as much money as everyone else, even and perhaps _especially_ when they commit random acts of economic violence on their staff.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#272

Post by Apocryphon »

SantalBlush wrote: post #260
NineStarPoint wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when the downsides are unbalanced. If the future does not come to pass and you acted on it, you have to lay-off 10% of your workforce. If the future does come to pass and you didn’t act on it, other companies that did act on it eat your lunch and you may end up with many more people losing jobs than just 10%. So the question is if there should be truly zero level of faith in economic predictions, or if there stat…

You are absolutely correct. No economic prediction is perfectly accurate, therefore they are always at least somewhat inaccurate. So calling them inaccurate is a truism. In reality, some predictions are more valuable than others, based on their evidence, methodology, etc. Moreover, it doesn't pay to be a hero on Wall Street. Like you hint at here, it's much safer to go with the crowd and be wrong than to go against t…

Apple not overhiring isn't paying off for Tim Cook personally in terms of compensation terms, but seems to be paying off for that company on Wall Street.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#273

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

hello_moto wrote: post #92
mabbo wrote: post #20

The goal of the CEO of a publicly traded company is to make the shareholders money. As much money as possible. If laying people off is the best way to do that, they'll do it. Blaming the CEO for doing the job they were hired to do seems short-sighted. Blame the broken system that incentivizes this, that makes doing it profitable. And then, let's change the system.

> And then, let's change the system. How about ... get ready for a taboo word in hi-tech: unionized? at a certain size, a hi-tech company must face labour union? Before anyone suggests that Union protect low performer and penalized high performer, keep in mind that right now, at this moment, high performers are culled left and right in FAANG because their salary is too high. High performers also gravitated towards "c…

How will you define a "high-tech company?"

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#274

Post by dopamean »

colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

> when COVID hit and tech companies saw large surges

This sounds like what you said it wasnt, "hiring for today."

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#275

Post by s1artibartfast »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #35
mabbo wrote: post #20

The goal of the CEO of a publicly traded company is to make the shareholders money. As much money as possible. If laying people off is the best way to do that, they'll do it. Blaming the CEO for doing the job they were hired to do seems short-sighted. Blame the broken system that incentivizes this, that makes doing it profitable. And then, let's change the system.

If their job is to make money for the shareholders, and quarterly reports show that they are either making less money, or incurring in losses, then they aren't doing their job. They laid off people who had little to zero influence in defining the company mission, trying to cut spending. This suggests that the C-suite over-spent. > Blaming the CEO for doing the job they were hired to do seems short-sighted. Blame the…

But the problem with this whole mentality is that over hiring didn't really cost the companies that much, and furthermore, the issue has been addressed.

If I were a shareholder, why would I hold this against the CEO as long as the buybacks keep rolling in.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#276

Post by Apocryphon »

jedberg wrote: post #259
Apocryphon wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was it a good risk? The writing on the wall that tech was overinflated, that TC was insane, that the money printing was going to have a severe correction eventually. It should have been common wisdom that it was a temporary state of affairs because the growth in tech was not built on irreversible trends. Lockdown would end eventually. All of those food delivery apps, at the very least, could not expect exponentia…

> The writing on the wall that tech was overinflated, that TC was insane, that the money printing was going to have a severe correction eventually. Sure, and then you lay people off when that correction comes in. In the meantime you're hiring the best people and having them do great work. And when they layoffs come, maybe some of them stay. > All of those food delivery apps, at the very least, could not expect expone…

It is a big surprise because tech was in its own superheated bubble for about fifteen years ago and human beings have short memories. So perhaps that's why Warren Buffett's dictum of being fearful when others are greedy is so important to remember, even in greedy times.

But 1) it seems rather disingenuous for companies to posture one way and then pull the rug under their workforce who are being sacrificed in the name of a cooling market, and 2) perhaps companies should consider other ways to pursue profitability without massive layoff sprees?

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#277

Post by option »

automatic6131 wrote: post #102
colinmorelli wrote: post #86

Regardless of individual opinions on whether CEOs should be terminated for layoffs or not - there's a surprising amount of comments here that seem to not understand that growing companies don't hire for today, but for where they want to be tomorrow. Where you want to be tomorrow is based on where you and your investors believe the world is going. If the world materially changes enough to shift your expectations about…

>when COVID hit and tech companies saw large surges because investors and CEOs saw industries leaping 5-10 years into the future overnight, they hired to support that growth Yes, they all egregiously failed. A massive, widespread, collective failure for which they should lose their jobs, as many other people do. On the face of it, it was obvious, that's not even hindsight bias - it was the topsy turvy world that bad…

they are accountable to shareholders not employees. This it is up to shareholders to decide whether CEO they employ failed or not.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#278

Post by sokoloff »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #261
sokoloff wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cited Alphabet revenue, not advertising or YouTube revenue. > Google’s parent company, reported $59 billion in advertising revenue for the fourth quarter, a decrease of 3.6% from the same period in 2021. Those results marked the second time ad sales fell since Google became a publicly traded company in 2004. > Google’s video platform, YouTube, recorded a second straight quarter of declining revenue for the three…

> You cited Alphabet revenue, not advertising or YouTube revenue. Because you previously said: > Alphabet is absolutely posting troublesome trends in their revenue reports. Essentially you are telling me that if revenue as a whole goes up, but not in some divisions, that makes sense of layoffs across all divisions.

Yes, I then cited the troublesome figures in those reports in the literal next words.

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#279

Post by seper8 »

cudgy wrote: post #215
robocat wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is nonsense unless you can explain why you pick your cutoff point at $200 million. Plenty of people in the USA would argue that $200k is a bad number: those overpaid software developers with their share incentives need to be stopped /s. Shareholders should revolt against those rich software developers? > It is absolutely a ruling class leeching off society that this happens I mean, the same argument can…

> Shareholders should revolt against those rich software developers? Of course they should. Hiring a few, strategic, expert developers at those rates might make sense. However, paying 200k+ for a newly graduated student with no experience should have been questioned firmly.

Maybe that newly graduated student provides more than 200k in value?

Re: Tech CEOs Should Be Held Accountable, or Even Fired, Amid Layoffs

#280

Post by s1artibartfast »

kerkeslager wrote: post #254
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #3

This is based upon the assumption that layoffs are a failure rather than a feature which, while I find it distasteful using people's livelihoods in such a way, doesn't actually seem to be the reckoning for a lot of people. When times are good why wouldn't you hire to maximize profits and then cut people loose when times are getting bad? If you can ignore the human factor it makes sense.

> When times are good why wouldn't you hire to maximize profits and then cut people loose when times are getting bad? Because you don't want to harm people.

Now That would be a firing offense for a CEO.

Most shareholders prioritize returns over headcount, otherwise they would be donating to charity instead of buying stock.

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