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Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

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Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#271

Post by the_only_law »

not1ofU wrote: post #248
unsupp0rted wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've explained this much more clearly than I've seen done before. Maybe because I hear my voice in yours. Skip the web dev and be a writer. Surely other HNers can hire patientplatypus for this?

If you check the comment history it is unlikely that anyone here wants to listen to what this person has to say, let alone provide them with work. I have skimmed through a few of the comments and IMO there is nothing in there that warrents the downvotes / dead comments, which appear to not even get replies (tut tut HN, breaking your own "rules" again) I do wish this person well however, I hope luck smiles down on the…

I’m not sure why it’s getting praised. The guy hijacked a thread discussing drug addiction so he could get on a personal soapbox and drone on about his own problems while trying to diminish others.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#272

Post by philwelch »

anigbrowl wrote: post #243
kstrauser wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

That's very confusing to me. Criminal drug dealers of course want to lower their costs and maximize repeat business, even if that hurts their customers. But people consume different drugs for different reasons, and I don't see the economic benefit in giving them something orthogonal or opposite to what they're actually looking for, when it would be cheaper and safer to just dilute with some inactive filler material.

A likely explanation is that China is using the cartels to wage a 21st century opium war. (The obvious link to China being that China produces most of the chemical precursors to fentanyl, and until recently produced most of the fentanyl itself.) The average American drug user isn’t the customer; he, or rather his eventual death or disability, is the product.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#273

Post by notch656c »

hammock wrote: post #262
notch656c wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Test strips are just as or almost as illegal as the drug themselves in many state. Except without the huge profit margins to incentivize dealers to carry them.

Why are they illegal?

"Paraphernalia."

IN my state it is a felony have a reagent that say tests for THC whereas ownership of the THC itself is legal.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#274

Post by PragmaticPulp »

nicoburns wrote: post #270
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

> A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them This is true for drugs in general, but not many people are stupid enough to take opiods recreationally.

> but not many people are stupid enough to take opiods recreationally.

Recreational opioid use is extremely common. People seek out opioids for their recreational value, including drug-naive users.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#275

Post by cf141q5325 »

dlkf wrote: post #256
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? This isn’t how it works. Few people, if any, want to “check out.” What happens is that people are exposed to opiods via one of two channels (they are prescribed painkillers, or they party with someone who has acquired them) and they quickly get hooked because these drugs are cripplingly addictive. So the only “why” questions we have to…

Except that its nonsense. People know what opiates are. If you keep taking them and dont stop, you get physical withdrawal. That wont happen over night and its not "the worst sickness imaginable". And unless you did something even more stupid like switching to methadone it will be over in a few days.

It is quite simple, at some point, you decided to continue taking them despite knowing this to be problematic.

I would also like to add, that i have met very few addicts who blame the drug. Its most of the time relatives who like the story of their loved one getting tricked.

If it was only the fear of withdrawal, the opioid crisis would be solved next week. Literally. But the unfortunate problem is that people relapse. Because what ever made them take opioids every day didnt get fixed with a withdrawal. And if your life still sucks, its very easy to go back.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#276

Post by yyyyyyy »

calibas wrote: post #215
yyyyyyy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I put some of the responsibility on the people who created it and promoted it's use in the first place. While there was a little bit of questionable marketing around some forms of fentanyl it was mostly around for the ride - the real blockbuster drugs leading to the medical establishment opioid crisis were hydrocodone, oxycodone and tramadol. Making fentanyl a scapegoat is misplaced. The opioid epidemic did not nee…

I'm not making fentanyl a scapegoat, just look at the US drug overdose statistics, especially the huge jump around 2020. Fentanyl is eclipsing every other opioid, synthetic or otherwise. It alone is responsible for what is quickly becoming the deadliest drug epidemic of all time. There's good reason for my harsh criticism, and I don't think most people truly realize how bad the situation is.

> There's good reason for my harsh criticism, and I don't think most people truly realize how bad the situation is.

No. I'm saying, as someone that understands the nuances better than you that, focusing on the fentanyl statistic is misleading.

> It alone is responsible for what is quickly becoming the deadliest drug epidemic of all time.

No it is not "alone" responsible. All the other stuff: oxy, hydro, tramadol, heroin, morphine is more responsible for the current mess. People didn't routinely end up with opioid addictions due to fentanyl as much as all these other medications (and illicit heroin, not all addictions are the doing of big pharma)

The fact that they are now seeking out illegal suppliers and that invariably these end up being fentanyl based due to the convenience for that organized criminal enterprise is why fentanyl shows up so much.

It's not the root cause though. And the forces that make it appealing in the illegal market would be present regardless of its legal status as a prescription medication.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#277

Post by cf141q5325 »

bragr wrote: post #260
cf141q5325 wrote: post #257

This is an utterly horrible idea. People are so caught up in the fear mongering that they forget that fentanyl is used in pain management in end of life care. Vaccinating yourself against the effects of pain meds is as stupid as it gets. And it gets really vicious once you start pushing this on people.

You wouldn't give this to the general population, only to addicts that couldn't get clean otherwise.

Those might need the end of life pain management one day. Its what makes it so vicious. They are in no position to think the horrible consequences through.

edit: Lets lot sugarcoat this. This is not a new idea. If you push this on somebody, you might as well torture them to death yourself. Its that bad of an idea and your motivation doesnt change the outcome.

There are a whole lot of worse fates then being an addict and being in excruciating pain because of a preventable lack of end of life pain meds is one of them. You can look around, large parts of the world are doomed to this because of a merciless crusade against pain meds by people who couldnt deal with their loved ones choosing a drug. And i will be damned if its because nobody wanted to hurt their feelings by explaining this to them.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#278

Post by somethingreen »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #160
shaunxcode wrote: post #109

The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine? If we don't address that nothing is going to stop the drug abuse let alone the relapse and overdose. I'm not talking about "more 12 step" here but more of a Frommian psychoanalytic approach. You are broken because society is broken. You have the ability to change yours…

> The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY. Why do so many people want to check out of life completely by abusing medicine People start using drugs for different reasons. It's not correct to say that everyone starts abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism. A lot of drug users start because they're simply seeking recreation and someone is nearby to make drugs available to them. It's as si…

>abusing drugs as a form of pure escapism

>start because they're simply seeking recreation

These are the same thing. Happy people don't seek to drown every waking moment in constantly escalating recreation, they got things to lose and when they are out having fun and an opportunity comes around to do drugs they are surrounded by friends and loved ones who care for them enough to not let them ruin their life for lolz.

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#279

Post by not1ofU »

the_only_law wrote: post #271
not1ofU wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you check the comment history it is unlikely that anyone here wants to listen to what this person has to say, let alone provide them with work. I have skimmed through a few of the comments and IMO there is nothing in there that warrents the downvotes / dead comments, which appear to not even get replies (tut tut HN, breaking your own "rules" again) I do wish this person well however, I hope luck smiles down on the…

I’m not sure why it’s getting praised. The guy hijacked a thread discussing drug addiction so he could get on a personal soapbox and drone on about his own problems while trying to diminish others.

It was in response to this comment:

"The real issue here that people don't seem to want to face is the WHY."

They provided an answer to "why?". I think thats fair. Maybe I am wrong. I checked further on the comment history, it appears to me someone has it out for this person, as the other topics are not soapboxing at all, and most or dead without comments.

Care to discuss further?

Re: Fentanyl vaccine tested in rats

#280

Post by carlmr »

anigbrowl wrote: post #243
kstrauser wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re adding Fentanyl to everything now. I have Burning Man-adjacent friends who take ecstasy once a year at festivals, and they’re terrified of getting a tainted dose. This affects many more people than just those addicted to opiates.

That's very confusing to me. Criminal drug dealers of course want to lower their costs and maximize repeat business, even if that hurts their customers. But people consume different drugs for different reasons, and I don't see the economic benefit in giving them something orthogonal or opposite to what they're actually looking for, when it would be cheaper and safer to just dilute with some inactive filler material.

It's accidental, the deadly doses are so low that just not separating them perfectly when weighing or packing might contaminate the other.
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