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Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

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Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#271

Post by anon291 »

cratermoon wrote: post #196
brightball wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s the same story and same examples from NBC if it helps. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/-racist-florida-release...

There's nothing called "CRT" being taught to grade school kids. Teaching math using statistical examples from the Implicit Association Test is problematic how?

The implicit association test has large numbers of critics. Presenting it as as true as mathematics is disingenuous. In fact, it is a silly idea to link any psychological study to mathematics, as psych studies are notoriously un-replicatable. Better to stick to hard sciences like physics, chem, or biology, or at least well-replicated social studies. But presenting something controversial in line with mathematical facts is not a good idea.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/3/7/14637626/implicit-as...

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#272

Post by Maursault »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #21
yamtaddle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classroom libraries are a big deal. Every step taken that makes a teacher's job riskier, less pleasant, or less like what they want to be doing (teaching kids, without having to worry about whether some plainly-positive action is legal), drives good teachers out of the profession.

It also drives families with kids out of Florida to more sane educational operating environments. Florida already has the worst teacher shortage in the nation: https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/22/our-child...

> Florida already has the worst teacher shortage in the nation

This isn't new. Florida teacher shortage has existed for a long time. It's because Florida doesn't pay their teachers. This isn't likely to change anytime soon because Republicans have had a stranglehold on Florida since 1999, and they are notoriously anti-education.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#273

Post by TurkishPoptart »

mellavora wrote: post #223
kleton wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the assertion that destroying public education is a right-wing goal. While there may be some individuals or groups with that belief, it is not a universally held position among those who identify as right-wing. Additionally, making it a crime to teach is not a tactic that is being used by any mainstream political group or party. Education is an important issue that affects the future of society and sh…

So perhaps you should review what many leading right-wing politicians have been saying for years about teachers, see i.e. Attacks on teachers never ‘as bad as right now’: union chief (2022) https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3621251-attacks... Right-Wing Money Is Greasing the Anti-Teachers Union Skids (2018) \ https://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2018/07/13/ri... The Right-Wing Assault on Teachers…

It's unecessarily divisive that criticism on teachers' unions is labeled "right-wing". It's also linguistically dishonest to call policy measures "attacks" and "assaults". Sometimes organizations become so detached from reality and everyday life that minor changes become necessary. But rather than engage with their detractors, the unions seem to sic the media on them.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#274

Post by prettyStandard »

jonathankoren wrote: post #174
jackson1442 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've even allowed veterans to teach without credentials for up to 5 years (while working on a degree and teaching certificate): https://www.reuters.com/world/us/amid-us-teacher-shortage-fl...

If you can fix a M2A2 Bradley, you’re qualified to teach calculus? I’m not sure I follow.

Veterans are by definition M2A2 Bradley mechanics?

I'm not sure I follow.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#275

Post by anon291 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #75
Jiro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a very simple argument: The existing system has been used as a workaround by activists to defacto teach things that shouldn't be taught to students. Keeping the books out of the library is the best practical method of stopping this, because directly controlling the contents of the curriculum is hard to enforce. That argument may or may not be true in this particular case, but it's not some impossible…

> Also, don't confuse school libraries with public libraries. What's the actual meaningful distinction here? Both are publicly funded, that students/kid can choose to go to and browse books in (but rarely do). It's not like kids are banned from public libraries.

For one thing, adults are typically not allowed into school libraries during school hours. It's much easier to keep books away from parents interested in knowing what their kids are reading in a school library than a public one, where parents are more likely to be with their child.

But either way, governments cannot stop you from speaking. However, no government office, neither a school library nor a general public one, is or ought to be required to carry your speech.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#276

Post by superkuh »

acallaghan wrote: post #89

How is this fine, but banning sale of guns not fine in these people's minds?

Groups wanting to ban firearms and groups wanting to ban books are ideologically the same. Their back and forth petty bannings only encourage the other block to the detriment of actual human persons. Both believe their group ideologies override the rights of the individual and both are willing to use violent force of the state against people.

Trying to apply rational arguments to either "side" (of the coin) is inappropriate since neither come from rational positions. But there are plenty of people against the banning of both. They're just quieter without billion dollar lobbying groups required to achieve their goal of status quo.

But, if we want to be extra clear, legal minors at a public school don't have many civil rights. It's frustrating that they're treated so badly but that's the legal code. Technically it's probably legal to do this (but it should be challenged in court). Whereas adult citizens have far more clearly defined property rights; especially on their own property.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#277

Post by thewellis2 »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #213

This would have caused an uproar when I was at school. We organized student strikes for less in junior high school (southern England 1960s).

Well, Section 28 happened here in the UK in the 80's, and that was targetting teachers (and local councils) that didn't toe the central government's homophobic agenda.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#278

Post by mcv »

l33t233372 wrote: post #173
alexb_ wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me be clear that I do not agree at all, in any way with this argument, I'm just answering your question as to what the opinion of people who like this think. There are books which contain explicit depictions of sex between teenagers. Why do you want teenagers thinking that having sex before you are 18 is normal? Kids shouldn't be reading stuff about sex (gay, straight, or otherwise) before they are adults. The on…

There’s nothing magical about the age 18. The age of consent in many states is lower. Hell, the age at which you can join the military is lower. People under 18 have sex all the time, and they should absolutely be reading stuff about sex before then.

Yeah. It's rather important to be able to tell the difference between educational books about sex, normal, healthy sexual relationships, and porn. I can understand banning porn that encourages unrealistic expectations from sex (which is a problem), and the other two. If you ban the other two, you can bet children will learn about sex from porn.

Or not at all and be really surprised when they get pregnant.

Re: Unapproved books now a felony in Manatee County schools

#280

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #257
bb101 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"banished handguns so you can no longer protect yourself..." I think this view has been quite comprehensively debunked by now. I for one do not want to live in a country where most people have access to handguns.

[deleted]

[deleted]
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