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Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

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Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#271

Post by ofrzeta »

dijit wrote: post #215
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. This is why I don’t want to sell to developers. “Here’s a solution that will save you hours every month, it’s only $9 p/m.” “$9 p/m???” - asked a developer choking on their avocado toast “That’s the same price as Spotify! Meh, I can develop the same thing myself in 2 weeks.” 2 months later. "Well, it's almost done. At least I won't be wasting $9 p/m."

Its not devs buying these tools in a company context, and devs are not on universally high salaries. I made the point before that these little costs rack up quickly, I can speak to my costs: Gitlab: 19/m Docker: 24/m Slack: 12.5/m Copilot: 19/m Office: 12.5/m Tailscale: 15/m oslash: 6/mo pagerduty: 41/m Jira/Confluence: 26.25/m Calendly: 16/m Bonusly: 4.5/m Snyk: 98/m Figma: 42/m Lens: 20/m Postman: 29/m Sourcegraph:…

Very often the point is that you have to buy seats for everyone (including non-technical employees) on the same plan if you want to cooperate on these platforms. Very soon it gets expensive. It doesn't make much sense to count the individual license for Jira (but it makes sense for Jetbrains).

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#272

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

pico303 wrote: post #260
_skel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the initial negative take on the license change was correct, and this is the dying gasp of the company. It's just taking longer than expected to replace Docker Desktop. But I am seeing a lot of progress on Podman and Rancher and a few others, and some of the larger tech companies are also building in-house replacements. A lot of the people who had to scramble to find a replacement are not happy about it. In…

I’m just getting really tired of people thinking good software should be free and all the expertise and hard work that goes into something like Docker isn’t worth paying for. Docker provides a ton of value for very little money. Why shouldn’t I, as someone who makes a living writing software, pay others for the same hard work they’re doing? If you can’t be bothered to pay for anything, why should anyone pay you for y…

RMS must be crying and Bill Gates must be laughing his ass off right now at the FOSS movement doing a 180° on "free as in speech and free as in beer". I mean, proprietary software developers have been saying the same thing as the parent poster ever since the FOSS revolution started taking off in the '80s.

Judging by the developer rhetoric, Gates & co. were right in the end and the chickens are starting to come home to roost for FOSS. "Vive la contre-révolution!" I suppose.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#273

Post by presentation »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #272
pico303 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just getting really tired of people thinking good software should be free and all the expertise and hard work that goes into something like Docker isn’t worth paying for. Docker provides a ton of value for very little money. Why shouldn’t I, as someone who makes a living writing software, pay others for the same hard work they’re doing? If you can’t be bothered to pay for anything, why should anyone pay you for y…

RMS must be crying and Bill Gates must be laughing his ass off right now at the FOSS movement doing a 180° on "free as in speech and free as in beer". I mean, proprietary software developers have been saying the same thing as the parent poster ever since the FOSS revolution started taking off in the '80s. Judging by the developer rhetoric, Gates & co. were right in the end and the chickens are starting to come home t…

Seriously, 90% of the comments on HN when software companies decide to charge customers money is that the poster doesn’t want to spend any money on any software ever (but wants to receive billions of dollars building their own FOSS TODO list app) and that they’re the companies are oppressive and evil. What a relief (and time-saver for the support teams) it must be for companies like Docker to have those difficult users just self select themselves out.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#274

Post by ngc248 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #129
paxys wrote: post #8

I remember everyone had written Docker off for dead when they announced their updated pricing plans, but they really made perfect sense, and I am happy to see the company recover. A large chunk of the tech world today relies on their products, but they were making next to nothing for it. It is definitely worth it for large companies to throw a few dollars their way considering the massive amount of value they are get…

> A large chunk of the tech world today relies on their products, but they were making next to nothing for it. Yes, but only because they ran a massive marketing campaign, and then achieved market penetration as a result of years of developer cargo-culting. Containers have been around years before Docker, docker added a ton of bloat and a repository. So what? None of the predecessors (Jails, OpenVZ, etc.) needed tens…

>>> Containers have been around years before Docker,

True, but docker made it easy peasy. They came up with the packaging format and other things in a neat little package. This was what made everyone take up docker when it came out.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#276

Post by Nullabillity »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #184
roughly wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…

Amen. This is why I don’t want to sell to developers. “Here’s a solution that will save you hours every month, it’s only $9 p/m.” “$9 p/m???” - asked a developer choking on their avocado toast “That’s the same price as Spotify! Meh, I can develop the same thing myself in 2 weeks.” 2 months later. "Well, it's almost done. At least I won't be wasting $9 p/m."

Of course, this doesn't count the time wasted troubleshooting why your $9/mo piece of garbage doesn't work, or finding out that it never even tried to deliver on its promises. Or the time spent replacing it when you decide to 3x the price out of the blue. Or maybe you just decided to sunset it out of the blue because you got bored?

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#277

Post by Overpower0416 »

kdrag0n wrote: post #151

Looks like there's a lot of discussion about Docker Desktop alternatives here, so shameless plug: I've been working on a new Linux+Docker+Kubernetes solution for macOS recently! Already has quite a few improvements over existing apps including Docker Desktop, Rancher, Colima, etc: - Fast networking: 30 Gbps! vs. 150 Mbps with Docker VPNKit. Full VPN compatibility, IPv6, ping, ICMP and UDP traceroute, and half-open TC…

[dead]

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#278

Post by v3ss0n »

doctor_eval wrote: post #203
cheriot wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had more productivity loss than that from docker's bugs and CPU/battery drain. We don't use docker in prod so why use it for dev? I need a container not this power hungry daemon and annoying UI. As I type this my laptop is hot because docker needs to be reset and restarted.

This is what drove me away from docker in the first place - only to find there’s little alternative today. Honestly, the poor reliability of docker on any platform, for so many years, has tainted it in my mind and I will change in a heartbeat if something better comes along.

That's strange, my developers run docker on quite old laptops and they are doing fine. Not mac's though, we running Manjaro Linux and no impact in performance. But we uses docker engine, not desktop. I had seen docker desktop runs in Qemu VM on non-linux os. That might be the problem and defeating the purpose of using containers at all.

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#279

Post by coffee33go »

dathinab wrote: post #204
roughly wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gets me about this is the math doesn't make any sense. Docker charges $10/developer/month. Those developers are paid $150k+/yr, fully loaded to the company (insurance, taxes, accounting, etc) is probably double that, but call it $250k/yr to be nice. You take 3 developers and have them spend a quarter on replacing Docker Desktop, that's nearly $200k in developer costs spent replacing a tool that's gonna cost your…

I think you are overestimating how much most developers world wide are payed. Something like $150k+/yr might be something you can get in silicon valley but outside of the US this level of payment is reserved to a small number of senior developer. Through that doesn't really change your arguments point. Through I also would argue that while some companies are tightly coupled to docker desktop many others are not (and…

> you are overestimating how much most developers world wide are payed. Something like $150k+/yr might be something you can get in silicon valley but o

True.

Also these $150k+/yr devs are the ones that eventually roll out the next opensource docker replacement...

Re: Docker 2.0 went from $11M to $135M in 2 years

#280

Post by v3ss0n »

KronisLV wrote: post #83
shaoonb wrote: post #52

Can't speak for anyone else, but my company is migrating away from Docker Desktop to Rancher in order to save money. We'll see how well that goes.

> Can't speak for anyone else, but my company is migrating away from Docker Desktop to Rancher in order to save money. Their Rancher Desktop offering seems to be promising: https://rancherdesktop.io/ Much the same way how Podman Desktop seems nice: https://podman-desktop.io/ Though personally, Docker has always been a safe bet (both the desktop software, as well as the container runtime), I think I'll stick with it f…

Why there are needs to use docker GUIs? Docker compose and lazy docker is all I need for managing over 80 docker containers , both dev and production

https://github.com/jesseduffield/lazydocker

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