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Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

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Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#271

Post by willmadden »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #252
willmadden wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article doesn’t “debunk” anything. Did you read it? Their argument is that a currency being “replaced” for “political, economic, and cultural reasons” isn’t a currency failing. What? If they’ve “debunked” the 27 year figure, then what is the correct average lifespan of fiat currencies?

> argument is that a currency being “replaced” for “political, economic, and cultural reasons” isn’t a currency failing. What? Did the Deutsche Mark fail when it was replaced by the Euro? Come on.

Did the Reichsmark and Rentenmark fail when they were replaced 10:1 for Deutschmarks, losing 90% of their face value?

Yes!

You are cherry picking by choosing the Euro. The point is that valuation loss to currency printing is currency failure. The vast majority of currency “replacements” are just abrupt failures, and generally coincide with a country being overthrown by a new authority.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#272

Post by jefftk »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #258
jefftk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full GAAP audit or we all assume you're broke. FTX passed a GAAP audit and was still broke. Safer just to take custody of your coins while your still can. 2021-08-27: " Both FTX and FTX.US have completed requirements to pass the US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) audit " https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-joins-coinbase-kraken-with-us...

> FTX passed a GAAP audit Do we have a source mentioning the auditor?

Prager Metis for international, Armanino for US: https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/11/meet-the-metave...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#273

Post by jefftk »

fabian2k wrote: post #264
jefftk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Full GAAP audit or we all assume you're broke. FTX passed a GAAP audit and was still broke. Safer just to take custody of your coins while your still can. 2021-08-27: " Both FTX and FTX.US have completed requirements to pass the US Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) audit " https://blockworks.co/news/ftx-joins-coinbase-kraken-with-us...

FTX had many parts, did that audit actually cover all of them or was that just for a subset of companies?

It probably didn't cover all of them: all of the announcements I can find from the time just talk about FTX US and International.

But if you're trying to decide whether to keep your money in another exchange, and they talk about how they have passed a GAAP audit "did the audit actually cover everything I care about" is still a live question.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#274

Post by ineedasername »

29athrowaway wrote: post #266

Not your keys, not your coins

That outlook has severe limitations though. Specifically that self-custody has very high barriers to actually using those coins without having them pass through some more centralized system at some point. There’s no cash equivalent (as yet) that is as frictionless as actual cash.

Maybe the next gen of tech tech that grows from these ashes will address that problem more directly, and get more traction than prior attempts by users learning from and demanding better than what they are getting now.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#275

Post by ineedasername »

chx wrote: post #240
jeffreyrogers wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many users of these exchanges their entire interest in crypto is speculation/trading, which requires them to store their crypto with an exchange so they can trade it because the costs associated with transferring to and from the exchange repeatedly would be prohibitive.

You are so close All current crypto"currencies" which use transaction fees (which is practically all of them) are negative sum games and thus are scams. This is so simple and people waste billions on not understanding it.

If they’re negative sum then so are traditional payment processors that charge transaction fees, which is not an argument I’d be prepared to make. Unless you see something fundamentally different about the nature of those fees in crypto?

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#276

Post by [deleted] »

ethbr0 wrote: post #170
cj wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source: Page 30 https://pacer-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/33/188450/042020648...

Oof. The preliminary corporate outline in Appendixes B of the filing is a lot. I guess presumably you'd want to compartmentalize risk via corporate structures in as sprawling of a business as FTX was ( especially if you were aware you had terrible internal controls), but it does beg the question of what nature of business each of these entities was engaged in. I.e. if they conducting actual business and so their exis…

[deleted]

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#277

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jefftk wrote: post #272
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FTX passed a GAAP audit Do we have a source mentioning the auditor?

Prager Metis for international, Armanino for US: https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/11/11/meet-the-metave...

Prager Metis and Armanino worked with FTX, but I can’t find anything showing they completed an audit. (Far from blameless. Both seem riddled with issues [1].)

[1] https://www.ibtimes.com/crypto-auditors-under-fire-ftx-meltd...

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#278

Post by supernewton »

fshbbdssbbgdd wrote: post #268
chx wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are so close All current crypto"currencies" which use transaction fees (which is practically all of them) are negative sum games and thus are scams. This is so simple and people waste billions on not understanding it.

Money in general has transaction costs - even cash decays every time it changes hands. Is it all a negative sum game? It seems that in order to make that claim, you need to make some comparison between the value produced and the costs incurred. IMO, crypto is pretty scammy but there is some value (note that crypto is most popular in countries with unstable economies and corrupt governments). A crypto that’s optimized…

Money in general are traded for productive goods and services, not other kinds of money. That's why it's not negative sum. If you had a bunch of people trading between USD and GBP amd EUR and doing nothing else, that would be negative sum and look an awful like what people do with cryptocurrency.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#279

Post by that_guy_iain »

Animats wrote: post #72

"Binance has said it holds more than $60bn in assets, enough to honour withdrawals. The company’s disclosures do not include its liabilities, which makes it difficult to ascertain its financial health." Possibilities: 1) They're insolvent. Liabilities exceed assets. (Like FTX.) 2) Their accounting is so screwed up they can't produce a balance sheet. (Like FTX). 3) They have a large number of interconnected corporate…

For me, it's the ruthlessness of dumping all the FTT tokens they had to crash FTX to buy it (which went pear shape once they saw FTX's books) makes me think that they're probably not in a strong of a position as they say they are. We see this all the time. Exchanges saying they're strong and assets are safe until suddenly a few hours later they're not.

Re: Binance outflows hit $6B as Mazars halts ‘proof of reserves’ work

#280

Post by JumpCrisscross »

willmadden wrote: post #271
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> argument is that a currency being “replaced” for “political, economic, and cultural reasons” isn’t a currency failing. What? Did the Deutsche Mark fail when it was replaced by the Euro? Come on.

Did the Reichsmark and Rentenmark fail when they were replaced 10:1 for Deutschmarks, losing 90% of their face value? Yes! You are cherry picking by choosing the Euro. The point is that valuation loss to currency printing is currency failure. The vast majority of currency “replacements” are just abrupt failures, and generally coincide with a country being overthrown by a new authority.

> Did the Reichsmark and Rentenmark fail when they were replaced 10:1 for Deutschmarks

Straw man. Nobody argued fiat never fails.

> vast majority of currency “replacements” are just abrupt failure

What is your source? You posted a statistic. A comment found it was based on B.S. You disagreed. I clarified the debunking argument. Now you’re throwing out straw men and a new unsourced claim.

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