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Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

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Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#271

Post by alkonaut »

JacobSeated wrote: post #161

Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too. It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

Facebook would need to charge too much. This is the problem. They invented a way of extracting so many dollars per user-months in ads that they can’t have users pay for it instead because it’s too expensive.

And the reason they do it so well is because they are so invasive to peoples integrity that if people find out - they’d also quit the service in droves, and it’s also so invasive that regulators are objecting.

I don’t see Facebook returning to growth any time soon.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#272

Post by zip1234 »

ternaus wrote: post #251

I do not know how to react about this. On one side I prefer my private information staying private. On the other I use free services like Google, YouTube, Facebook all the time. They make money selling our data, on the other, the fact that it is free for everyone is the democratization of the access to information. I suspect that even a subscription of $1 / month will push away more than half of the users for these s…

I don't think it is quite that they make money selling data--they are selling ad impressions targeted with the data.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#274

Post by RajT88 »

wpietri wrote: post #249
RajT88 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the big tech companies do not seem to understand what users want out of a VR experience. They want "Ready Player One", warts and all. Big Tech wants all the rough edges filed off, and for there to be little user control. This is why VRChat is so amazing and AltspaceVR is dull and uninteresting. Curated experiences with moderation and controls to prevent copyright infringement don't have broad appeal. A few of…

Thanks! I really appreciate a comment from an actual VR user describing actual VR use. I find the "but in theory it works great so let's ignore the problems" replies tiresome after a while. How often would you say you use VRChat? I'm especially interested in things that people use in the same way they'd use Facebook or Twitter: multiple times per week and as a default activity when they're bored.

I don't use my VR headset all that often, unfortunately. The last time I was using it a few times a week was trying to figure out if I could get a good working environment set up using my WMR headset. (It's OK with one of the virtual desktop apps you can get on Steam - but not so good I could do more than an hour in it. I haven't even gotten to the point of trying a Teams call to see how the audio and screen sharing works) Nor do I use social media much these days.

I think if I was 15 years younger (less demanding job, no wife, no dog, few other responsibilities), I'd probably be in VRChat 3-4 times a week though. It's a dicking around kind of place not unlike the online games I used to play back then.

I would use my headset more for watching movies virtually if:

1. Any of my friends had a VRHeadset and did the same (none do; barely any of my friends online game anymore due to family commitments). I used to regularly watch movies using the Xbox Netflix party feature back in the day.

2. My VR setup was more comfortable. Eyestrain is real - as my eyes aren't as great as they used to be. The headset chafes, I am still trying to work out how to consistently make it comfy.

All told - middle age prevents me from spending more time in VR, and thus VRChat.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#275

Post by alkonaut »

denton-scratch wrote: post #240

How valuable is "personalized ads"? I can see that there's not much point in serving me ads for e.g. women's clothing, because I'm not a woman. But even if you knew everything I read online, I think you'd be hard-pressed to guess what I want to buy. So I don't believe that advertisers need to know all about me. They just need a few data points: am I a man or a woman, do I ever buy anything (do I have any money), and…

Look at Facebooks bottom line per user. It’s insanely high. And it’s probably all down to precise as delivery. They make so much money per user from ads that if they charged a subscription for it, no one would sign up. That’s why they are so successful, and ironically also why I think they are doomed (because what’s the pivot once delivering precise ads is dead?)

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#276

Post by rootusrootus »

Fargren wrote: post #210
JacobSeated wrote: post #161

Facebook should just start charging users that don't consent to tracking for targeted advertising. Etc. Problem solved, and we, the shareholders, will hopefully be happy too. It's been truly shit to own Facebook stock the last year.. Let's end this now and get back to writing the growth story. Please.

I'm not totally sure that's allowed under GDPR. I know you can't say "consent to data collection or you can't use the website" [1]. So I doubt "consent to data collection OR PAY or you can't use the website" is acceptable. [1] unless the data is needed for the website to work

What a world we live in where government has decreed that business must provide services for free. No wonder people vote for that.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#277

Post by Krasnol »

Bombthecat wrote: post #270
johndhi wrote: post #162

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

Can't believe this is the top comment...

I unfortunately expected just that.

Protection of personal data is not something many in this bubble like to see since it threatens their products business model.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#278

Post by alkonaut »

cronix wrote: post #138
Panini_Jones wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that's called living in a country of laws with due process. The loophole is that the company is allowed to continue breaking the law while the appeal is in progress.

Not doing so would allow mere allegations to put your business on hold until the entire court process, all the way to the highest court, if applicable, is complete. It's not a loophole. It's a fundamental tenant of innocent until proven guilty.

The process shouldn’t take years of course. Once a court no matter how minor finds you guilty, you are guilty.

Now, you might want to appeal that to the next instance which makes it take years. But a court has already found you guilty.

In this case the law if it was sane should stipulate that the business either stop the violation during the appeal or risk the fine for the whole period of the appeal process if it turns out after appeal that you were guilty of the violation after all.

Facebook should have to seriously consider whether it’s worth the gamble to both fund the appeal process and pay the accumulating fines (which, again if the law is sane, amount to more than what FB would lose by simply stopping the violation).

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#279

Post by mehlmao »

aplummer wrote: post #217
cronix wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies did just fine selling products with non-personalized targeted ads that were intended for a wider audience before there was an internet. None of this tracking is actually needed in order to sell ads or make a profit.

Economic expansion is felt a lot worse in the opposite direction though. I buy products targeted with advertising to me all the time.

Then I'm sure you'd be happy to opt in to targeted advertising, and everyone else can stay safe.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#280

Post by wpietri »

RajT88 wrote: post #274
wpietri wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! I really appreciate a comment from an actual VR user describing actual VR use. I find the "but in theory it works great so let's ignore the problems" replies tiresome after a while. How often would you say you use VRChat? I'm especially interested in things that people use in the same way they'd use Facebook or Twitter: multiple times per week and as a default activity when they're bored.

I don't use my VR headset all that often, unfortunately. The last time I was using it a few times a week was trying to figure out if I could get a good working environment set up using my WMR headset. (It's OK with one of the virtual desktop apps you can get on Steam - but not so good I could do more than an hour in it. I haven't even gotten to the point of trying a Teams call to see how the audio and screen sharing…

Thanks! All very interesting.

One data point regarding kids: A couple christmases ago I rented the Oculus Quest just to see. It was fun and interesting, and a hot property around the household for the first week or so. I expected that the adults would tire of it, and we did. But to my surprise, the kids did too. They ended up back on the Playstation and their Switches, and they didn't even notice when I returned the Quest.

I'm very interested to see where it all goes.

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