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Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#271

Post by dotnet00 »

altacc wrote: post #19

There's been a lot of talk recently about effects of loneliness and the "loneliness epidemic". What a lot of this lacks, including this article, is a good and correct definition of loneliness. They seem to use the lazy & inaccurate definition of "spending significant time alone", which is very different to being lonely. There's a lot of people who are now able to spend more time alone than before and are happy with t…

I think an additional thing being missed in loneliness, as described by the article, is that it doesn't consider that talking to someone via text chat or phone call is not that different in terms of fulfilling social interaction needs.

By the article's definition, I'm an extremely lonely person because I very rarely physically spend time with others.

But looking at pure social interaction, I speak to all of my family for hours every week and have been essentially constantly talking with a couple of online friends (who also share my interests very closely) for several years now, which would be completely unrealistic in-person. So I get lots of social interaction and it's all the sort that I really value. As a result I wouldn't really consider myself to be lonely.

Even when I did have a mainly in-person friend group, it was hard to meet outside of school since everyone has their own things to take care of, so it was usually easier for everyone to just interact via more remote-friendly means.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#272

Post by Dracophoenix »

ryandrake wrote: post #232
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am posting this as a person born and raised in a rather small community. I personally do not yearn for the good old days when 'everyone knew everyone' and there were things to do together. We did things together, because of geographical convenience and random chance. We had no other options so we did kids things. Granted, I was lucky to be included in that particular group, because they all were much, much smarter…

It's not just leave-me-alone individualism. It's this new, belligerent "Toxic Individualism" that's taken hold, supported by recent technological change (such as social media) and recent political/cultural change (many examples). A regular individualist simply prefers to operate on their own, outside of society and ignore collective activities. This new breed of individualism is more focused on attacking society and…

What you call the the "toxic individualists" are simply another collective. Just one motivated by envy or nihilism.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#273

Post by bradlys »

dinosaurdynasty wrote: post #161
bradlys wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re a very physically attractive man if you managed to get 40 dates in one year. Your experience will be nothing like that of an average looking man.

That doesn't seem like it makes it better

It’s definitely grim out there for most young men these days. I’m 32 and make the money those girls are looking for but I can’t get a date to save my life cause I don’t have the looks. (Average in almost all aspects)

I’ve made offers to my friends that I’d pay them anywhere from $10k-$1m if they found me someone I ended up marrying. No one has taken it up - they know how bad the dating market is and that there’s zero shot.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#274

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #264
UweSchmidt wrote: post #125

The fundamental force behind this is individualism. Every single technological innovation has made it easier for the individual to function better alone. Every societal change has emphasized the individual right over the (real or perceived) benefit of the collective. This trend seems to accelerate and absolutely nothing that is happening in western society even remotely suggests a possible turnaround. You can take ac…

I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism. When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corp…

[deleted]

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#275

Post by AnthonyMouse »

chii wrote: post #268
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like it's the opposite. This was caused by the destruction of individualism. When people are individuals, you know the name of your butcher and which farm your wheat came from. Now it all comes from the collective and you can't participate in the process without being a drone. Working for Walmart is not the same as operating your own farm stand. You lack autonomy because decisions are made collectively by corp…

> makes everything bland, homogeneous and fungible. which is what makes it cheap and available. If you ran your own farm stand, the goods you produce would be some 2-5x more expensive than a factory farm could've sold for. The modern wealth is predicated on such specialization and scaling. It's why artisanal products are so expensive.

Artisanal products are so expensive because we make them so.

By default if you buy something in a store, add 5% to the value by improving it and want to sell it on eBay, they'll charge sales tax on the full sale price even though you already paid sales tax on 95% of that. To avoid the double taxation you have to file paperwork, which most people don't know how to do, and pay filing fees, which eat into your already-meager profits.

If you want to sell things over the internet yourself, or accept digital payments in person, how do you avoid paying a fraction of the sale price that may exceed your margin to some payment intermediary that may capriciously choose to cut you off at any time with no recourse?

If you want to incorporate, your annual fee is the same one paid by Apple, but e.g. $500 is a lot more to you than it is to them.

Keep adding things like that up and individual-scale operations are no longer viable without charging thick margins and thereby having only the affluent as customers, which is what happened.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#276

Post by cpsns »

qnt wrote: post #267
cpsns wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a similar situation in a very rural area, except probably worse to some degree. I do have a couple of family members local, but there's no bars, zero dating potential, no hobby groups, and no events for people my age whatsoever. I've seriously considered moving to a city, but then I'll have to lose the tiny bit of social interaction I actually do have, my family. In some ways I want to believe I could build a…

mate honestly that sounds like you're cutting off your legs to save your toes. you should take a backpacking holiday in a busy city somewhere (overseas?). If you have fun, try a working-holiday in a new city for a couple weeks. Maybe one you've been thinking of moving to? just try it on. There's no downside.

I've done this before within the country and ultimately just found it extremely stressful. I could never get comfortable in the AirBNB, I constantly felt like I'd just shown up and invaded someone's apartment.

I absolutely hate traveling, I just want to live somewhere and for it to become home.

You're probably right about the cutting off legs part, though I've simply lost sight of an exit from my current situation. I own a house, I have responsibilities, and I'm burnt out from work. I actually had a plan in place to move before I burnt out, but that fucked up everything.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#277

Post by amir734jj »

It's a good thing people are choosing to be alone instead of in unmerited relationships and dates that don't get anywhere. I have already spent too much time on dating websites and awkward social events trying to get to know people and none of them worked out. Society has changed and old norms don't apply anymore. People are more career-focused and would rather spend time with themselves than with someone with who they don't have anything in common.

The ratio of women compared to men on dating websites says a lot. Hence, women are choosing to be picky and men have no option but to be accepting of everything. This didn't work out in the long run and we are seeing its effects.

Welcome to reality.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#278

Post by _ktx2 »

1270018080 wrote: post #187
kodah wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And, oh yeah, cities are where the jobs are. We can and should change this as much as possible.

Why?

In short, equity. In longer form, a lot of people don't have the chance to leave their towns and that is in part due to opportunity, another way of looking at it is that extracting people out of their communities and consolidating them in cities isn't very equitable. Historically we've relied on colleges to give people a ticket out of where they come from. In the long term that does real damage to those communities. Instead of building them up, using that newly found prosperity, that wealth gets consolidated in cities. If we let people stay near their families, or wherever they prefer to stay, it gives people choice and creates a much more sustainable economic environment.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#279

Post by KingMachiavelli »

0F5 wrote: post #167

There’s nothing wrong with being alone. Being alone creates stress and stress brings mental and physical illness. Once they find a way to block stress, it won’t matter. ISR. Etc. If you want to be around people just get a job. If you want more intimate contact, get a job that brings that. Work at a daycare center and you’ll start to crave loneliness. Loneliness is a liberal thing. Move to the Midwest. People just blu…

Being alone can be bad even if it doesn't cause stress. Being around friends and building relationships is it's own goal and reward.

Switching from a career you've invested years into isn't a great solution. Working in a people facing job won't solve the need for long term relationships and I'd say most coworkers are often not interested (if they are even in remotely the same age/interest group at all).

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