How to sell tickets fairly • Hacker News Board

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#271

Post by BeniBoy » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 3:53 PM UTC

andreysolsty wrote: post #207

buro9 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point on artists is that maximising value extraction isn't their priority. I worked in the industry for almost a decade, had 2 record labels, and signed a number of bands that became famous (for some definition of that) as well as worked with bands that were famous (for any definition of that)... so I have some experience here even though that experience has aged a bit. Artists are balancing revenue now, with futu…

Dice is fantastic. Another thing they do is allow you to join a waiting list for sold out events. People who have bought tickets and want to return them can return them to the waiting list (and people on the waiting list will get a notification offering them a few hours to purchase the newly returned ticket). If someone on the list buys it they are refunded.

Counterpoint: Dice is terrible. Sure it makes sense for bigger artist that will sold out, but for most it is not necessary and it forces you :

- To have a smartphone

- To give out your phone number

- To create an account

The worst? You can't even resale the ticket if the event is not sold out! Usually if I'm unable to attend a concert, I'll put my ticket up for sale for half the price, but with Dice, you just wasted money on empty seats. Great.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#272

Post by yardstick » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

qeternity wrote: post #263

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

> The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyone to have the same level of access regardless of their background is a lottery. After centuries of failing to manipulate natural market forces, I don’t understand why people continue to think it’s possible. All that a lottery does is incentivize everyone to participate, even those who have no interest in going. Then a secondary market will…

> All that a lottery does is incentivize everyone to participate, even those who have no interest in going. Then a secondary market will engage in actual price discovery and you’re left with the current system.

How would the secondary market work if you have to put peoples names on tickets upon buying the ticket. No renames allowed (bring your name change deed poll and old and new IDs I guess). Can’t make the concert? Tickets can be refunded for the original price (maybe minus a token handling fee), and the ticket goes back into the next lottery sale pool.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#273

Post by cbsmith » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

yardstick wrote: post #272

qeternity wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyone to have the same level of access regardless of their background is a lottery. After centuries of failing to manipulate natural market forces, I don’t understand why people continue to think it’s possible. All that a lottery does is incentivize everyone to participate, even those who have no interest in going. Then a secondary market will…

> All that a lottery does is incentivize everyone to participate, even those who have no interest in going. Then a secondary market will engage in actual price discovery and you’re left with the current system. How would the secondary market work if you have to put peoples names on tickets upon buying the ticket. No renames allowed (bring your name change deed poll and old and new IDs I guess). Can’t make the concert…

My name is Chris Smith.

Solve that.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#274

Post by cbsmith » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

buro9 wrote: post #154

The proposed idea is a technical one that doesn't work for the promoters or artists or venues. The promoters want to know very early whether the venue is the right one for the number attending and whether to upsize, add dates, or even to go the other way to a smaller venue. The time to book a venue is very long... So they need as complete data as they can about sales as early as possible (they would love if 80% of th…

Little known secret: Ticketmaster has an auction system for selling tickets (I believe it has actually built more than one). No one uses it.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#275

Post by itake » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

How is that any different from the current system? The current system randomly selects web browsers to add tickets into the cart.

The scalpers have more lottery tickets than everyone else (via bots).

I guess the main difference is to not allow ticket transfers?

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#276

Post by leejo » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:25 PM UTC

Euphorbium wrote: post #212

Interesting how there is absolutely none of this problem in Europe, as tickets are tied to an ID and there is no reselling or scalping.

We attended a few gigs in Italy this summer. Two of them we bought tickets first hand, they were indeed tied to a name with ID required. Was ID checked? Nope, of course not. One was a medium sized venue (3000), one a stadium, and one small (c. 300).

Tying to an ID is a nice idea in principal...

Another gig we bought tickets second hand, the seller had to go through the original site to return their tickets and then we could purchase them (I wrote a script to poll the site to find available tickets as they had sold out quickly). Did they check our IDs? Nope, of course not.

Requiring ID and having to return the tickets to the original site for resale is probably the optimal solution. But in reality if IDs are not checked it pretty much falls apart.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#277

Post by sopooneo » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:26 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

The perception of profit maximizing ticket sales at each event will hurt total profit of the artist over their career.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#278

Post by manholio » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #216

manholio wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model that works is to build relationships with fans and afford them privileged access, and sell everything else at market clearing prices. Ticketmaster tried too offer that through a "verified fan" route, but it failed under the weight of its own monopolistic ineptitude. Whoever cracks the fan management+ticketing service and offers it to bands will have an incredibly strong moat.

How exactly do fans prove their loyalty?

All kind of models are possible: associate your social ID and prove you've distributed band related content early in their career; associate multiple past purchases - for things like merchandising, fan specials, behind the scenes etc. etc.

The main theme is giving band and labels tools to maintain and curate this relationship with the fanbase, and only then add ticketing on top of it. If you have a certain mass and sign multiple names from the same genre, you can leverage that data to "migrate" say Green Day fans to some new alternative/punk band and offer them discounts, under the assumption this could build strong preferences for that band in the future.

Instead of maximizing present ticket revenue and "burning" a band's current fanbase, you maximize career-wide earnings, fan number and impact. That's a kind of moat that's unbeatable.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#279

Post by sopooneo » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #268

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

> Accept that tickets are a luxury item, like Ferraris. Exactly. High demand and low supply means not everyone gets to see Taylor Swift. That's life. I don't see the issue.

I believe the problem is that fans perceiving a “that’s life” sentiment from Taylor Swift will hurt her total long term profit.

And that’s in addition to Taylor Swift, personally, wanting non-elites to share in the show experience, which I have no proof of but happen to believe

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#280

Post by pyrolistical » Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 4:33 PM UTC

sdenton4 wrote: post #270

kjrose wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does will call wipe out scalpers? I have never heard that before. I would love to hear the explanation.

Check IDs before handing over the tickets. Cuts resale to in line at the event, which tanks the efficiency of the resale market.

There will still be scalpers but now they will be committing fraud. At the end of the day there will still be a large number of real fans who will be pissed will call rejected their ticket.

The fans will need the smarten up and learn the rules. That would take time