Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that wasn't the problem, was it? They got "the music."
Honest question: are you autistic?
Why are you people always asking me that?
My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
271–280 of 284 posts
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems the brickwall mastering was intentionally done by Mick Gordon. See the section starting at "id Software approved my mastering". The alleged "disregard for basic music fundamentals" appears to have introduced more dynamic range, although not in a way that's pleasant to listen to.
From the article: > [...] Doing so caused dramatic amplitude spikes at the edit point. Chad didn’t bother to crossfade the transition: both files play simultaneously (causing spikes at double the volume). > To compensate, he “remastered” the edited song by normalising it to 0dBFS — a rudimentary error. That's why the OST is so incredibly brickwalled.
That's not what "normalising" means. Normalising is just changing the gain of the whole track so the peak level matches your target. And this is obviously what it meant, because if it somehow actually meant dynamic range limiting, we would not see the volume spikes.
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the article: > [...] Doing so caused dramatic amplitude spikes at the edit point. Chad didn’t bother to crossfade the transition: both files play simultaneously (causing spikes at double the volume). > To compensate, he “remastered” the edited song by normalising it to 0dBFS — a rudimentary error. That's why the OST is so incredibly brickwalled.
That's not what "normalising" means. Normalising is just changing the gain of the whole track so the peak level matches your target. And this is obviously what it meant, because if it somehow actually meant dynamic range limiting, we would not see the volume spikes.
Ah, sorry. I read it to mean compression. I see that I'm wrong now. Thanks!
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're making an extremely pedantic distinction, which is only correct in a purely technical sense. Which is the worst kind of correct. Yes, mastering engineers work from track-level dynamic range (usually achieved with slow-response compression) to transient-level dynamic range (fast compression/limiting), and the range in between. When the context for this discussion is about "brickwall limiting", we're talking abo…
I'm well aware of the difference, as acknowledged by my first post in this thread ("not in a way that's pleasant to listen to"). But it is not pedantry, and it is relevant to the context, because this unusual form of dynamic range provides evidence as to when the dynamic range compression was applied. If it was applied after the edits described in the article, I do not think we would not see the volume spikes. I do n…
Yes, it's clear Gordon has applied a mastering limiter to the tracks he delivered to Bethesda, and given that the style of the music involves heavy processing/effects and multiple levels of compression, a somewhat aggressive mastering limiter seems appropriate here.
But your point about "increased dynamic range" due to the editing errors is a distraction from your claim that Gordon applied a mastering limiter (which he clearly did). It creates ambiguity, because you're using it in a way that's not aligned with common usage in this context. That's part of why you're getting pushback.
In any case, if we want to try to answer the question of why the OST has low dynamic range (in the mastering limiter sense), I am somewhat receptive to ndepoel's argument - it seems reasonable that in-game tracks could be mastered more aggressively, and with lower dynamic range, than what would be appropriate for a proper OST release. Caveat: I haven't done mastering work in the context of game audio so I can't say if that's common practice, but it seems a little more likely than not.
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
The edit described in Gordon's post talks about overlaying tracks with zero crossfading done and instruments clashing, all being done hastily by hand. That alone is a massive contributor to the dynamic range brickwall. Gordon explicitly singled out those instances. He didnt say "the track as a whole has a DR brickwall through and through." He mentioned a complete lack of crossfading being the massive contributor to t…
"Brickwall" limiting is about very short-term transient compression; to oversimplify things, those limiters are operating at the timespan of 1-30 milliseconds, more or less. These edits are a few hundred ms to a few seconds at a time, so it doesn't make sense that Gordon would refer to them as "brickwall". (Another problem here is that evaluating a mastered waveform's dynamic range by eye is extremely subjective, and…
> Really doesn't look like it, but I don't have the raw files to measure to know for sure.
You have access to the official OST of Doom Eternal (which is claimed to have the brickwalling), as well as access to the in-game versions of those tracks (which you can rip out of the game or find the already-ripped ones on youtube easily). I can certainly confirm by playing the game and listening to the ripped files myself that there was no brickwalling in the in-game tracks. However, it becomes very obvious in the official OST.
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Brickwall" limiting is about very short-term transient compression; to oversimplify things, those limiters are operating at the timespan of 1-30 milliseconds, more or less. These edits are a few hundred ms to a few seconds at a time, so it doesn't make sense that Gordon would refer to them as "brickwall". (Another problem here is that evaluating a mastered waveform's dynamic range by eye is extremely subjective, and…
> Really doesn't look like it, but I don't have the raw files to measure to know for sure. You have access to the official OST of Doom Eternal (which is claimed to have the brickwalling), as well as access to the in-game versions of those tracks (which you can rip out of the game or find the already-ripped ones on youtube easily). I can certainly confirm by playing the game and listening to the ripped files myself th…
Interesting. My initial comment was discussion of the article only. This additional information, which is not mentioned in the article, makes it seem that the brickwall mastering was not done by Mick Gordon.
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only individual in the decision-making process who is able to sort right from wrong here is the exec who is a liability.
Not that I'm denying your claim, but if there's that little oversight on the allocation of funds, I fail to see how any of these orgs not get looted before the opening bell rings. If any exec could just cut (likely many) six-figure cheques for what really amounts to personal expenses while overseeing a project that is allocated too few funds, is way over budget, and over time, then what keeps these orgs afloat? To re…
The expense is at least prima facie legitimate. On paper you’re just paying a fee to a contractor in exchange for a NDA protecting the company from liability. If you cover things up well enough, it won’t raise suspicions and nobody is going to go out of their way to investigate their boss.
At a certain point this sort of thing does become unsustainable, but most execs stop short of that point. Also, this sort of thing becomes illegal at some point as well; you can learn about cases where people didn’t get away with it, and then maybe extrapolate from there to see how other people might get away with it.
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not that I'm denying your claim, but if there's that little oversight on the allocation of funds, I fail to see how any of these orgs not get looted before the opening bell rings. If any exec could just cut (likely many) six-figure cheques for what really amounts to personal expenses while overseeing a project that is allocated too few funds, is way over budget, and over time, then what keeps these orgs afloat? To re…
The expense is at least prima facie legitimate. On paper you’re just paying a fee to a contractor in exchange for a NDA protecting the company from liability. If you cover things up well enough, it won’t raise suspicions and nobody is going to go out of their way to investigate their boss. At a certain point this sort of thing does become unsustainable, but most execs stop short of that point. Also, this sort of thin…
> Also, this sort of thing becomes illegal at some point as well; you can learn about cases where people didn’t get away with it, and then maybe extrapolate from there to see how other people might get away with it.
Thanks, this is good advice
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you are quoting was written by the composer of the soundtrack (Mick Gordon)
damn, that is so sad - it's objectively an amazing soundtrack. It's really sad that this whole experience has damaged his perception of his incredible work so badly :(
Sorry - I was actually incorrect. I missed the second quotation mark, that was the opinion of the commenter and not of Mick G. My bad!
Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal
#280That open letter from Marty always felt fishy to me, because everything I ever saw about Mick made him feel like someone who is simply enthusiastic about music and all the stuff he claimed smelled wrong. I ended up writing it off as "Maybe he's just better at a public persona than I figured," and was sad but moved on. But now? Oof I wonder what Bethesda/Zenimax/MS does about this, because the look is NOT good for Mar…
I knew Marty's open letter was bullshit back then when I first read it since the game was originally set to release in 2019, and here he was talking about not having Mick under contract for the OST in January 2020. It was also suspicious that he said that they didn't have the source material for the game music after that contract has ended. That would be such a tremendous oversight, the studio not owning all the mate…
I also think Chad was the original plan for the OST. However I don't think Marty/id ever decided that Chad isn't up to the task. Note that Mick only got the contract by going straight to their parent company Bethesda. Marty only showed up after Bethesda was already doing the contract anyway.
What's more, the announcement of the OST has some ambiguous wording. They announced it as Mick Gordon's DOOM (2016) and DOOM Eternal original soundtracks. This stuck out to me immediately as a combination of Mick Gordon's DOOM (2016) and DOOM Eternal. Mick cites this in his medium post as Mick Gordon’s original DOOM Eternal soundtrack but I think that is (understandable) wishful thinking.