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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#271

Post by lordnacho »

What the UK really needs is proportional representation. The conservatives do not belong together in one party, but because of the election system any internal differences are allowed to happen informally via whips within the party constitution instead of the formal, national constitution. Labour has the same problem, as does the US FPTP system.

PR would allow different factions to negotiate under formal rules like in other countries, where when a support party loses confidence, they topple the government and cause an election. PR of course also has whips but there's the prospect of dissenters starting their own party.

For a look at how that works follow the Danish election that's coming up in a couple of weeks. The old PM quit and formed his own party, another of the old ruling party did the same, and both look to be grabbing quite a large share of votes.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#272

Post by mikro2nd »

castis wrote: post #134
iLoveOncall wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire population was able to vote to elect the party, and the party then elected her as PM. Her position was 100% legitimate, whether you like it or not.

Legitimate only means that the :rules: were followed and nothing more. It does not mean that the rules or the system they reside in are just.

Not the only meaning of "legitimate". There's also "Authentic, real, genuine" and "Conforming to known principles, or established or accepted rules or standards; valid." (Wiktionary) There's a question of acceptability involved here, I feel.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#273

Post by T-zex »

cameronh90 wrote: post #245
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#274

Post by foldr »

krapp wrote: post #225
sofixa wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charles exerted lots of control behind the scenes while he was Prince of Wales, lobbying, receiving lobbyists, getting inside information, accepting huge donations, etc.

Also people were arrested for protesting his ascent to the throne. They were later "de-arrested," but the intended message is pretty clear.

There's no 'intended message' to be found there, just some isolated incidents of dumb police officers arresting people for silly reasons (as acknowledged by their subsequent 'de-arrest').

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#275

Post by ShredKazoo »

This might sound crazy... but if the UK is already de facto ruled by financial markets, in the sense that the PM has to step down if the markets don't like what they're doing, maybe it's time to try prediction market-based governance for real?

What would've happened if instead of simply announcing the proposal, Truss had described the proposal and the government had sponsored a conditional prediction market on the economic effects?

She could've run prediction markets for dozens of proposals, and selected a policy that was popular with both the markets and the public.

(Lest this idea be seen as overly capitalist: there's no reason not to run a prediction market for "degree to which this policy will reduce inequality", and incorporate the result into decisionmaking as well. Imagine the irony: a bunch of rich hedge funds trying to figure out the best way to reduce inequality!)

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#277

Post by FridayoLeary »

chrisseaton wrote: post #119
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

A lot of it is theatre. For example keir starmer congratulating boris on the birth of his child, i think, and sounding sincere. Then pretty much in the same breath, he lashes out at him on some policy or scandal. English people banter a lot more then americans, so its not taken personally.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#278

Post by SevenNation »

> Truss's premiership has been in turmoil since her mini-budget last month, which rocked markets and was later scrapped by her new chancellor

Interesting that the train was set in motion by economic trouble, particularly inflation and a miscalculation about a response.

The strong US dollar is exerting effects around the world and will continue to do so. This is unlikely to be the last incident in which the dollar's strength contributes to instability in other countries.

There have been many calls for the death of the dollar. Inflation will kill it. It will be killed by countries wising up that they don't need it and can trade with each other using their own currencies.

And yet here we are. US CPI growth north of 8% and a dollar that's rocketing higher. Meanwhile countries like Britain and Japan are desperate to find a way out of an acute dollar shortage, tanking currencies, and uncontrollable inflation.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#279

Post by brd529 »

T-zex wrote: post #273
cameronh90 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

In England “public schools” are what they call elite privately run schools.

Edit: interesting history on why: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_(United_Kingdo... the schools “were "public" in the sense of being open to pupils irrespective of locality, denomination or paternal trade or profession.”

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