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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#271

Kind of weird that the website hosting a story about intrusive spying has a cookie policy that essentially says "we're going to set a cookie to track you around the intarwebs and you can't opt out of it." One more site to add to the memory hole.

No post body was provided.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#272
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very…

For you, there will be no impact beyond having to sign the "Congratulations!" card for your colleague! A company (an employer) rents the time and skills of employees for a particular task. It's not a pool of work that employees must struggle to achieve regardless of circumstances - it's the employer's responsibility to hire enough staff. For example, my paternity leave (20 days or 40 half days) would not impact my co…

That's similar to how it works in my Canadian workplace. My employer has a pool of workers, and when a project is coming up, the manager phones around and fills his or her labour requirements. Lots of us work secondary jobs too, and this is both reasonable and understood, and a "no" or even a series of noes to an offer won't put you on the street, though it may lower you on a particular manager's call list.

Its like renting yourself out. You don't feel owned, and nobody feels they own you. Its great.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions he was a remote worker up front. I think his job was telemarketing.

I wonder if they were a remote sales or marketing rep. I'm not sure why a software development Company would have an employee doing telemarketing, at least not the unsolicited direct to consumer type we use the term for in the US. Maybe this is a connotation issue.

Software companies still need to sell stuff much of which can be remote, it looks like this local branch was a sales operation to the Dutch market.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, in most states in the US it would be illegal for an employer to reveal to another employer that the employee was on a PiP, I am surprised that is allowed in the EU with all the privacy laws. The US has lots of anti-black listing laws in almost every state that would make something like that very very illegal

Its also not legal in Germany, in fact, its pretty impossible to legally give a bad reference. HR departments have a workaround though - instead of a bad reference, they will simply confirm that yes, you worked there. Nothing else.

> yes, you worked there. Nothing else.

That's the norm in most places, isn't it? He didn't steal anything, he wasn't sacked, he didn't punch-out the boss, and he didn't shit on the carpet.

Nobody wants to be sued for giving a decent reference.

My dad was a soldier; his retirement reference (age 45) said something like "He is an oustanding officer who will succeed at any enterprise he turns his hand to". That impressed me, until I learned that any officer retiring from the army will get a reference pretty-much the same.

Note that retiring from the army at age 45 is very common. If you get to 45 without getting promoted past colonel, you need a new career, because serious promotion happens when your CO gets killed in combat; and beyond about 45, they won't be sending you into combat.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> which requires politicians to step in Ironically politicians "stepping in" is the biggest reason cost of living is going up. Regulations preventing new housing, limiting new housing, etc. Monetary policies and massive debt fueled spending spree's causing massive inflation, draconian lock downs disrupting supply chains, irresponsible "climate" policies preventing farmers from growing food affordably, the 100's of o…

Bad regulations by a slow, bureaucratic government do that, yes. Meanwhile, the free market people always claim will solve everything? That same free market "solved" mobility by pushing car usage through the roof, resulting in extremely inefficient space usage now that population demands are changing. Neither bad regulations nor the free market are going to solve a lack of foresight. Worse, those regulations are larg…

The problem here is what you identify as problems the market (thus people) do not agree are problems

For example you decry the " inefficient space usage " of modern housing, and suburbs, however many people clearly prefer to have single family structures on plots of land over living in densely populated area's

I am one of those people, I would never choose to voluntary live in a dense city like NYC or even LA

I can think of nothing more nightmarish then living in a multistory apartment building. I lived in a 3 story building once, and got out of there as fast as I possibly could. Today I live in a typical suburban neighborhood, with homes on 1/2 to 3/4 acre lots and about 40-100 foot separation between home even that is far too tightly packed for me, and would prefer even greater separation.

Governments attempt to control sprawl and force more density is in part what is driving the massive increase in cost for Single Family homes.

So it is not a correct statement to proclaim the free market is not solving problems, it is that people that guide the market reject your proposed problems and the solutions you desire for the problems, in that rejection the only way to do it is to impose government regulations by force.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its also not legal in Germany, in fact, its pretty impossible to legally give a bad reference. HR departments have a workaround though - instead of a bad reference, they will simply confirm that yes, you worked there. Nothing else.

Are reference letters no longer done in Germany? When I was there that was how this was done. Basically you would always get a reference letter when ending employment. The reference letter's language always sounds good, as in not giving a bad reference. However, a reference letter that states things like "employee X delivered his tasks on time and to the satisfaction of work standards" basically means that he's a sla…

They are still a thing, though I don't know how common. My own experience on leaving a big company fairly recently was they were available if you wanted one, and you were expected to write your own and submit it for approval, in German and/or English at your discretion.

I didn't bother, but if my future plans had included being an employee at a big company in Germany I definitely would have done so.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#277
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially now with the proxy war between US and Russia This is not a proxy war between the US and Russia. Ukraine nor Russia started this conflict at the behest or instigation of the US. The US (and NATO, the entire western world really) are supportive of Ukraine but it's important to note that Ukraine is not a puppet of the US and that Putin started this conflict.

The war is "between" Russia and Ukraine but the US is funding and arming Ukraine because the US wants to hurt Russia. How is that not the dictionary definition of a "proxy war"? Swap the US and Russia and replace "Ukraine" with "North Vietnam" and you have a historical conflict which everyone agrees was a proxy war. How is this different?

> because the US wants to hurt Russia

You seem to forget Ukraine in this equation entirely, you know, the country that is the victim of Russian aggression including murder of civilians, rape, and theft.

They are constantly begging for help to fight the invaders. Is it remotely possible that's why the US is helping for this reason and to stop Russian aggression?

Any "hurt" Russia receives is entirely self inflicted. This is a war of their choice.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a checkbox used during termination.

I also don't see how going through it reduces the stigma. The stigma exists _because_ of the experience, not the unfamiliarity of it. For instance, does the experience of going through US airport security ever reduce the stigma of it?

> does the experience of going through US airport security ever reduce the stigma of it?

Some people feel degraded when they go through airport security, but it doesn’t carry a stigma. Nobody’s judging you for going through security so you can fly.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#279
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because when you hire employees they come with the aspect of being “people”. People work to live, they don’t live to work.

This has the very very close connotation to "from each according to ability to each according to need" I live a very frugle life, my expenses are low, I have no kids, I dont take expensive vacations, drive a fancy car, etc... So should that mean I do not get time off, or high raises, etc simply because my "needs" are not the same as a co-worker? Why should a co-workers personal life choices (i.e the choice to have 1…

Maybe you should talk to your boss and ask for more, instead complaining about others.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#280
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure there are systems in place in these countries which actually make it possible. right? Like, there are insurances and government assistance programs that businesses use to pay for things like parental leave. US businesses get no such help. So what is often attributed to US business greed is actually political greed, while businesses are just casualties.

Your statement does not make much sense. As you correctly say, there are obligatory schemes to pay into in Europe. The companies could easily keep the same amounts at hand and pay them out at the same conditions - no difference whatsoever except corporate greed/lack of obligation.
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