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Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

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Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#271

Post by yodsanklai »

msbarnett wrote: post #240
bee_rider wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm slightly confused about the relationship between chess.com and these tournaments. If he gets caught cheating at a FIDE tournament, they could do whatever they want -- ban him for life, whatever, it is up to them. If he gets caught cheating on an online game, whether it is chess.com or counterstrike, who cares? It is an unranked online game (or the ranking is tied to some account gamerscore thing). Unless their ch…

> If he gets caught cheating on an online game, whether it is chess.com or counterstrike, who cares? Chess.com isn’t the yahoo chess web app or whatever, there’s more at stake there than “gamerscore”. Some of these 100 games were in online tournaments for cash prizes. Just because it wasn’t a FIDE run tournament doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter or that no one cares. The chess.com Pro Chess League they suggest he cheate…

> The chess.com Pro Chess League they suggest he cheated in 12 games of had a $100,000 prize fund.

I'd argue that an online tournament is bogus if anybody can cheat by using a computer.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#272

Post by msbarnett »

yodsanklai wrote: post #271
msbarnett wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he gets caught cheating on an online game, whether it is chess.com or counterstrike, who cares? Chess.com isn’t the yahoo chess web app or whatever, there’s more at stake there than “gamerscore”. Some of these 100 games were in online tournaments for cash prizes. Just because it wasn’t a FIDE run tournament doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter or that no one cares. The chess.com Pro Chess League they suggest he cheate…

> The chess.com Pro Chess League they suggest he cheated in 12 games of had a $100,000 prize fund. I'd argue that an online tournament is bogus if anybody can cheat by using a computer.

You understand that this whole discussion is about how chess.com detected this at the time and booted him, right? They appear to be doing a better job of detecting cheating than OTB tournaments, which doesn’t say to me “anybody can cheat by using a computer”

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#273

Post by phnofive »

ehsankia wrote: post #154
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #101

> “Outside his online play, Hans is the fastest rising top player in Classical [over-the-board] chess in modern history,” the report says, while comparing his progress to the game’s brightest rising stars. “Looking purely at rating, Hans should be classified as a member of this group of top young players. While we don’t doubt that Hans is a talented player, we note that his results are statistically extraordinary.” I…

I think the biggest tell is how he wasn't able to explain his play and just threw a smug response whenever asked to describe anything.

I think this lines up with the other circumstantial evidence, but can you quantify this? Like, was he pretty much never willing to explain his plays? Has any other rising star or top competitor been similarly uncooperative?

People aren't coins, with each toss unaffected by previous landings, but at the same time, not giving evidence shouldn't be considered evidence itself.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#274

Post by hackerfromthefu »

yodsanklai wrote: post #268
chesscom wrote: post #144

There is so much more to our report than what was focused on in the WSJ article. The full report will be shared shortly…

I'd be curious to know about the cheating rate on chess.com. I'd expect at lot of people to cheat occasionally, e.g. kids with too much time on their hand, people trying to "fix" their ranking, or getting a bit of help when they play against their friend and so on... And also... who cares? there are no stake, just playing against random people, who cares if they cheat as long as you have fun playing. It's less fun fo…

The people playing against the cheats care.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#275

Post by nawgz »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #249
nawgz wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work three full time jobs remotely and do the bare minimum in each I always wonder what the expected value on this strategy is. I'm a naive sucker, so I have worked my ass off at my job, and I have had 250% salary growth in 5 years at it. Maybe that's standard if you're job hopping. Do you ever get raises? Do these jobs actually pay over 33% of the best job you could get? Would it be more stressful to juggle this…

Depends the sacrifices you are willing to make and what you want. I earn 300K CAD between the jobs plus a pension. Let's call it 230K USD. I have three years of experience. I live in a low cost city in Canada as all my jobs are remote. I suppose it depends on whether you view this as a pro or a con, but my earnings are virtually all cash (some 20K in stock in total), so I am not taking a beating with the current mark…

Thanks for the detailed answer. Given the remote nature it sounds like you're killing it; I guess I have similar comp but work 1.5x as hard. Cheers!

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#276

Post by awillen »

raydiatian wrote: post #134
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #101

> “Outside his online play, Hans is the fastest rising top player in Classical [over-the-board] chess in modern history,” the report says, while comparing his progress to the game’s brightest rising stars. “Looking purely at rating, Hans should be classified as a member of this group of top young players. While we don’t doubt that Hans is a talented player, we note that his results are statistically extraordinary.” I…

Yeah you pointed out something special here. It’s like those unsung Russian sub captains who didn’t start the nuclear apocalypse because they had an intuitive understanding between faulty and genuine threats. You can’t explain why you know something you just know it. Besides, Magnus genuinely has never seemed like the guy to get petty and up and throw a fit, he’s lost plenty of times without doing such.

My understanding of the Russian sub captain that I'm aware of is that he was able to explain it clearly - it appeared that only one missile had been fired, and he knew it made absolutely no sense that the US would start a nuclear war by firing a single missile.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#277

Post by s1artibartfast »

hackerfromthefu wrote: post #274
yodsanklai wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious to know about the cheating rate on chess.com. I'd expect at lot of people to cheat occasionally, e.g. kids with too much time on their hand, people trying to "fix" their ranking, or getting a bit of help when they play against their friend and so on... And also... who cares? there are no stake, just playing against random people, who cares if they cheat as long as you have fun playing. It's less fun fo…

The people playing against the cheats care.

I think it is an interesting question. Aside from consent, playing against an anonymous cheater is indistinguishable from playing against a better player. Presumably people are elo matched so it should not matter

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#278

Post by Retric »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #277
hackerfromthefu wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people playing against the cheats care.

I think it is an interesting question. Aside from consent, playing against an anonymous cheater is indistinguishable from playing against a better player. Presumably people are elo matched so it should not matter

A cheating player isn’t going to have equivalent elo when cheating and not cheating.

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#279

Post by vario »

openfuture wrote: post #255
vario wrote: post #248

Noob here: how did he cheat without getting caught? did he memorize chess engine responses? Or did he have a secret computer somewhere feeding him the moves?

Memorizing is not cheating. Many of the pros do that. He'd need to be receiving computer analysis during the game for it to be cheating.

I see. Yes the article which I read later, did mention players looking at gadgets in the toilet...among other techniques. I guess the future of chess championships would be interesting...

Re: Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times

#280

Post by raydiatian »

awillen wrote: post #276
raydiatian wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you pointed out something special here. It’s like those unsung Russian sub captains who didn’t start the nuclear apocalypse because they had an intuitive understanding between faulty and genuine threats. You can’t explain why you know something you just know it. Besides, Magnus genuinely has never seemed like the guy to get petty and up and throw a fit, he’s lost plenty of times without doing such.

My understanding of the Russian sub captain that I'm aware of is that he was able to explain it clearly - it appeared that only one missile had been fired, and he knew it made absolutely no sense that the US would start a nuclear war by firing a single missile.

Well, fuck me
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