Live data from Hacker News

Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

reuters.com

271–280 of 330 posts

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#271
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly disagree. People in Germany couldn't care less about Ukraine because it is far away. Most assume that Putin will win this war anyways. However, they care strongly about cheap Gas because it directly influences their lives.

70% of Germans favor continuing support for Ukraine even if that causes high energy prices ( https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/politbarometer-union-... ). This value is practically unchanged for months.

"I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself"

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#272
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, russia controls "the valve", so it doesn't need to destroy the pipelines, and the minute EU (well, mostly germany) decides to negiotiate, putin can open the valve. With this, even if they negotiate, there won't be any gas soon. So, it's bad for russia, bad for eu, and the only one being better of is USA... who was threathened to do exactly this more than once. https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1490792461979078662

I would say not being able to buy Russian gas is good for EU. Supporting evil empire by buying gas is bad not just for European souls but also for long-term stability, as we can see.

Most of us "European souls" would prefer to stay warm throughout the winter.

It seems quite clear to me that in the short and medium term this ideological stance isn't going to hurt "evil Russian empire" a whole lot, while being extremely disruptive and harmful to everyone in the EU.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#273
post #2

> before Moscow sent its troops into Ukraine on Feb. 24. Do we really need to smooth "Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24"?

Don't read too much into that. You're thinking more about that phrasing than the author probably did.

Ok. But that's worse.

You do get how that's worse, right?

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#274
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me chuckle a bit. The polish government can hardly contract appropriate levels coal so that people who burn it to heat their homes have trouble replenishing their supplies before winter. Just yesterday they came up with 50% tax on excessive income for companies which employ 250+ people, so clearly they aren't capable of planning months or years ahead, let it be the effects of such a strike on NS.

On the other hand, if the US government came up with the idea, Poland would be happy to execute it. Government wouldn't think much about it, they wouldn't even ask for anything in return.

Yeah, that's Poland for you. If US asks us to jump we only ask if it's high enough.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to shit on Russia as much as the next guy but keep in mind there is propaganda on both side and Ukraine is infinitely better at it than Russia, these aren't egg cartons, they're meant to be there: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/491788609276608574/... https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51936534258_91f5217324_b...

>Ukraine is infinitely better at it than Russia [Citation needed] The garbage Australian report that only looked at two hashtags (who even uses hashtags anymore?) doesn't count.

>[Citation needed]

Not the person you replied to, but let's test the theory this way: Can you list out some of the US/Ukraine propaganda? If not, do you think it's because the US/Ukraine isn't using propaganda or because they're better at it and you don't realize it's propaganda?

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#278

I don't think this was some kind of psy op to drive a wedge between NATO countries as there aren't any benefits from that in the current situation. The only situation my tin foil hat could imagine this being useful is in the event of much stronger tension (like the constant threat of using nukes). This would need a coordinated reaction in which distrust could be fatal. For supplying weapons or sanctions that distrust…

how does Russia benefit of destroying those pipelines, though?

It doesn't. Russia's benefit lies in insecurity and control over Europe's energy supply. This operation however reduces their control and influence. In the short term insecurity rises, but this is a one time thing and lasts until solutions are found, which definitely will be found. Gas prices might be higher, but Russia doesn't profit from them, as they can't send gas to Europe anymore and the prices for China aren't influenced.

It benefits however US interests: Germany becomes a more stable partner, no matter how this thing turns out. Currently Russia is blamed, so the German reaction is more severe. In addition, LNG prices are higher, but I don't think that was the main reason for that operation in the first place. Blaming the US, even if their responsibility is certain, in a time of crisis won't happen as a united front against Russia is still needed.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Poland's interests didn't lead to such a operation. They have even more problems with high gas prices than Germany because they don't have long term contracts with Norway.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#279

Without a doubt US American sabotage. During the days and weeks leading up to Russia's move into Ukraine, the US rhetorized over and over again about Nord Stream. All the time the main issue was that the EU must not buy LNG from Russia, it must agree to USAs "energy dominance" politics and buy LNG from them and only them. This is a way to make sure that when winter comes, the EU has nowhere to go for LNG but to the U…

I wouldn't say that this is a operation for global hegemony or energy dominance. It's simply about preserving political influence in Europe. Unfortunately, I must say, Europe/the EU is not capable of a proper geopolitical strategy. Europe would easily be annihilated by Russian psyops, so in all that misery this brings to the alliance, it's still net positive.

Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day

#280

I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95

U.S. Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland: "If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward." https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/1486818088016355336

Nord Stream 2 is (politically) dead in Germany, reviving it is a total fringe position in German politics. And: Putin doesn’t currently deliver any gas through it or Nord Stream 1 anyway. Gas storage in Germany is still filling up, gas prices are going down and it looks like getting through this winter will be tough but it also looks like there will be no dramatic gas shortage in Germany. And all indications are that while things are though, it seems as though there is enough flexibility to move away from Russion gas and that has, if anything, only accelerated. I more or less expect things to become easier as time goes by, not harder, with this winter now looking to be only a bump in that road.

In that current favorable climate for anyone whose political goal it is that Germany does not rely on Russian gas I see no strategic value at all in sabotaging Nord Stream 1 or 2.

You don’t need to blow up Nord Stream 2 if the position of the German government and the largest opposition party is to not move forward with Nord Stream 2 anyway. That would only seem to unnecessarily complicate things (and sabotage can only ever really delay things, better to actually also have the political will align with your own).

Post reply on HN