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What I’ve learned from users

paulgraham.com

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Re: What I’ve learned from users

#271

Post by luxpir »

jraby3 wrote: post #263
throwaway2037 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"creeping boiler room effect" -- I never saw this phrase before. I like it. This is the reason that I personally avoid sales people (outside of work / socially). To me: Sales is fundamentally about upselling -- selling you more than you need. How can people do this 8 hours per day, then go home and pretend they are not a sales person? Every GOOD sales person tells me they are "only like that at work". No, they are no…

Doesn’t it matter what they are “selling” after work hours? I was a salesman 20+ years ago and still engage in up selling my friends. But it’s usually to get them to engage in healthy activities like working out, going for a walk, or eating healthy; or to get them to try a new experience like tasting a new food or being more honest/kind to their loved ones. Sometimes I wonder if I’m exhausting to them or they appreci…

A bit of both. Work on yourself before others.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#272

Post by yellow_lead »

toast0 wrote: post #253
shard wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems somewhat simple to just stand firm with the finance person and refuse all the add-ons, but how does one figure out what services are actually needed when the service adviser comes to you with a list of issues?

> how does one figure out what services are actually needed when the service adviser comes to you with a list of issues? As a basic set of rules: a) say no to everything. b) look at the service intervals in the book (or what the maintenance minder in the car says). c) ask them if the factory service plan would cover it d) ask them if it's critical to safety, and if so, explain what would happen if you didn't do it, h…

These are good questions to ask if you assume you would get truthful and non-misleading answers. I wouldn't trust a salesperson to answer these truthfully.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#273

Post by langsoul-com »

Reminds me of the quote "every happy family is the same, but every unhappy family is unhappy in their own way".

Also, kitchen nightmares, they can only get in the show if their restaurant is nearly going under. At the start, they'd listen to his advice and go with the changes. But after the show ends, they'd change back and then go under.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#274

Post by vl »

bluGill wrote: post #172
vl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, apart from fixed price online sales, there are fixed priced dealerships. They advertise price on the website and don't negotiate. You just show up and get car at this price. Very smooth.

Unless you have a trade in as this is one area where they can still get you. Do those fixed price dealers count their various add-ons (rust proofing, extended warranty...) in the fixed price or not. These add-ons are how most dealers make money (that and warranty work)

For trade-in compare price they offer to Carmax (including taxes and fees adjustment), if less, just sell to Carmax.

Whatever is on the sale sheet is included. You can order extra stuff, they will install it for you, but obviously it’s not included in the advertised price.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#275

Post by vl »

acchow wrote: post #224
vl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, apart from fixed price online sales, there are fixed priced dealerships. They advertise price on the website and don't negotiate. You just show up and get car at this price. Very smooth.

Uhhh....they don't add on unnecessary charges? Like a paint coating you didn't ask for?

The whole idea is that there is a car and non-negotiable advertised price, you pay the price + taxes + registration + processing fee, which are all known in advance and get the car. That’s it. If you are talented negotiator and have time, you’ll get better price elsewhere, but I value my time and well-being more.

Obviously there could be bad dealership which would try to screw you, read some reviews and don’t go to such place.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#276

Post by vl »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #166
vl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BTW, apart from fixed price online sales, there are fixed priced dealerships. They advertise price on the website and don't negotiate. You just show up and get car at this price. Very smooth.

You can do this at any dealership.

Yes, you can, but during normal times at most dealerships (current market being atypical) it means that you left few hundred dollars at the table.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#277

Post by lifeisstillgood »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #269
mdorazio wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The B in UBI is pretty important and seems to be at odds with what you're thinking. It's meant to be a basic income that guarantees you won't starve or be homeless somewhere in the country. That's it. A backup to fall upon or a subsistence if you don't want to/can't work or a life booster for low income earners. No fancy cars, apartment in a coastal city, big house, vacations, meals out, etc. How many HN readers woul…

We have welfare systems at the moment that achieve this - and it's not really working. Yes, Europe is full of "generous welfare" systems - from actual cash to nationalised health services. They are expensive but do not break the dependance on shitty jobs to pay the rent. When I hear UBI I do not hear "welfare system that is just about enough to get by in cheapest area of the country." That we already have in most of…

Replying to myself it's worth noting that (IMO) the Invisible Hand is a efficient allocation mechanism, not a strategic goal. The Hand has no mind nor any goal in mind - direction is given by the choice - by the opportunity cost left behind.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#278

Post by sammalloy »

phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #94

PGs take on why early stage VCs gain so much experience reminds me of my opinions on why car sales is the best sales experience. I sold cars for almost a decade and was pretty good at it averaging 30 cars a month. That means every year I helped people sign for $16 million of products. In the end I probably sold 3000 cars for over $100 million. (Note, I stayed in it way too long. I think most of these benefits would c…

> I think car sales is an accelerator course for interacting with, reading, and closing people.

There’s a lot of truth to this, but you could easily switch out "car sales" with any other kind of client and customer interaction. When I worked closely with users many moons ago, I quickly realized that most of them weren’t getting their needs met and were super excited to have me work one on one with them, and a very small percentage were actively hostile to any interaction at all. This kind of thing has held true for every job I’ve ever had. 1% of the customers cause 99% of the problems.

Re: What I’ve learned from users

#279

Post by avg_dev »

robocat wrote: post #250
avg_dev wrote: post #21

I’ve read a few of pg’s articles over the years. I believe it was one about nerdy kids and their relationships and worldviews that first brought me to this site. At some point, I read the article “Hackers and Painters” and I felt like pg’s essays didn’t resonate with me anymore. I even read a response called “Dabblers and Blowhards” that I resonated strongly with. I thought to myself, pg is distanced from reality, an…

I think I have followed a similar trajectory. I had an engineer-employee-type response to some of Paul’s hackers-and-painters essays (2004), and I still think there is a lot of wrong in some of his cherished opinions[1]. However my colleagues and I founded a company about the same time as ycombinator was founded (2005). I have a lot more respect for his opinions after watching the wild success of YC over the years: h…

Thanks very much for the reply and the links and comments. I hadn’t read Beyond Smart before and I just gave it a read. I too disagree with many of the things in that essay. Almost everything, it seems, from the premise (which seems to be that having good new ideas is “the thing most to be desired”) to the importance of new ideas to the point you made which includes the words “dominance hierarchy” which taken at face value seem incredibly short-sighted. Has he heard of cooperation? Life is far from a zero-sum game. We as a species are capable of much, much more.

Nonetheless, I couched my language in my original post:

> I believe that on this subject, pg knows more than I likely ever will. His users are early stage startups…

I stand by my original words. I just probably won’t bother reading anything pg writes unless it is on the topic of startups.

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