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U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#271
post #153
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet Reddit, that follows this model, still manages to engage in suppression of on-topic viewpoints that moderators and/or Reddit employees disagree with.

Probably because mods are unpaid and not employees.

And reddit was a massive experiment in far right takeover. It went from hosting the rally for reason to electing Donald trump at lightning speed.

Not because of the overall community, but because of business actions, manufactured turmoil, and well funded trolling.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#272

Will this apply to bots? What if I have a big list of a complaints about a certain politician (use your imagination, there's more than one politician to complain about), but the "other party" doesn't follow me, in fact, I have very few followers overall. So I create a bot that spreads my opinions by replying to millions of other Tweets. Anyone who mentions the politician of interest will receive a reply from "me" (my…

It’s really not this complicated at all, and arguments like this just come across like reaching for a rebuttal.

What these people want is very simple: a clear standard uniformly applied and not done so in a partisan fashion. Everyone is onboard with preventing the scenario you brought up: it’s not killing free speech, it’s stopping egregious spam. This is completely orthogonal to that.

This is about not getting banned for disagreeing with one side’s political ideology. We’ve managed to do that before - even just a decade ago, and manage to do it now on other platforms, all without ridiculous hypotheticals like this one every occurring.

One your last paragraph: yes, you’re 100% exaggerating. This scenario is as reasonable as saying “legal self defense is dangerous because just think of all the bad actors that will murder and call it self defense!”. It’s just nonsense and goes against all evidence.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having run a mail server, I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to contain the deluge of spam and phishing attacks they would get if just told them to "sort it out" themselves.

You misunderstood. Don’t require users to build their bubbles, but have providers offer bubbles for a user to choose from. You could even have external bubble providers that offer different technologies and qualities of filters. Just don’t have one centralised overlord.

we have a centralized overlord?

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#274
post #238

Will this apply to bots? What if I have a big list of a complaints about a certain politician (use your imagination, there's more than one politician to complain about), but the "other party" doesn't follow me, in fact, I have very few followers overall. So I create a bot that spreads my opinions by replying to millions of other Tweets. Anyone who mentions the politician of interest will receive a reply from "me" (my…

I would actually like this. Imagine if online discussion was so visibly bad that no one used it anymore. Talk to real people. Go outside.

YouTube comments used to be that bad. People still read them.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#275
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which in turn means that corporations can do the same politicking (and political funding) that natural persons do. How can a corporation do any of these without natural persons being actually the ones deciding on and performing these actions? Corporation is, after all, just a form of organization of natural persons, and cannot do anything on its own. In Citizens United, government argued that the government can ban…

> Corporation is, after all, just a form of organization of natural persons, and cannot do anything on its own. A corporation is a synthetic legal object: beyond basic restrictions on its form, it's allowed to legislate itself internally according to whatever bylaws and structure it pleases. There is no requirement (and no particular precedent) for them having a democratic structure. This produces a fundamental tensi…

> This produces a fundamental tension between the people who comprise the corporation and the decisions that the corporation makes: the corporation can choose to do things that are overwhelmingly unpopular with its employees without significant recourse, since the corporation does not operate according to the will of its members.

Sure, but it’s still natural persons who are actually making those decisions, no? After all, a “synthetic legal object” cannot actually make any decision. You seem to be conceding that the Citizen United did in fact protect the speech right of natural persons, you just complain about the technical aspects of how this speech act was performed.

> In other words: corporations are naturally susceptible to undemocratic power concentrations, where a small number of executives or board members use the financial heft of the corporate body to achieve their personal goals. Allowing those concentrations to then seep into our democratic system is fundamentally corrosive.

So you are only against Citizens United as applied to big and powerful corporations, but are totally fine with it with less powerful corporations? Say, you totally support the actual plaintiff, the Citizens United organization, in its right to publish the movie that was the subject matter in the case?

Also, given that you seem to believe that the government should be allowed to block speech by powerful corporations, what about speech by powerful and rich individuals? Should government also have a right to restrict speech of individuals if they are rich and powerful enough?

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#276

Will this apply to bots? What if I have a big list of a complaints about a certain politician (use your imagination, there's more than one politician to complain about), but the "other party" doesn't follow me, in fact, I have very few followers overall. So I create a bot that spreads my opinions by replying to millions of other Tweets. Anyone who mentions the politician of interest will receive a reply from "me" (my…

Congrats, you're reinventing this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdar_Argic

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If social media wishes to be immune from lawsuits regarding the content it publishes, section 203, then it should not have the ability to censor such content for an explicit commercial revenue model. I understand why people hate that opinion, because they want civil discourse and nearly free access to media online. Uncensored content pushes normal people out. Those things are great, but are ultimately out of alignmen…

> If social media wishes to be immune from lawsuits regarding the content it publishes, section 203, then it should not have the ability to censor such content for an explicit commercial revenue model. Why? This is seems like a total non-sequitur. It's pretty obvious that the individual posting illegal content is the person responsible for it and not the platform it's posted to, unless the platform is soliciting or r…

230 is broad.

At the time, websites were mostly just hosts of content. The individual is posting on the website but otherwise the website is a tool.

This changes with recommendation algorithms. Nearly all social media is based on some kind of recommendation algorithm. Should that be covered by 230? It could be argued that it starts to get closer to an endorsement of certain content (and indeed, some of that recommended stuff is ads.)

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I know my political opinion is that you should check out my new product, and I'm going to express this political opinion a lot. If necessary I'll include a sentence about a US President. I'm half serious here. I would love to tell people about a new game I have on Steam (let's say), so I code a WebDriver "tool". It searches out gaming related Tweets and then expresses my political opinion. I have to press enter…

The very fact that you made this comment implies that you expect the public to understand what it means. Therefore, so would a jury of your peers. In other words, if you get that this behavior is just a twist on botting, it's safe to assume the courts will too.

You expect way too much of the justice system... The 'peers' on HN are very different from the peers on an average jury

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only research that has been done on this found that on Twitter the conservative voices were amplified more than progressive voices: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/10/27/twitter-am...

The opinion of three journalists working for the same retail tech conglomerate is hardly "research." WaPo has suffered a Pulitzer Prize revocation in 1981 for fabricating stories, has continuously circulated advertisements from China Watch (operated by the CCP), repeatedly settled on libelous claims made for profit, and on numerous occasions assisted in providing platforms for anti-Western and anti-Semitic groups sup…

It would take some time to fact check your assertions, so I only looked into the first one. It involved a single reporter, not systemic plagiarism by the paper, and she was fired when it came to light. The Post's ombudsman, who handles readers' complaints as well as internal problems, undertook an investigation.

Re: U.S. appeals court rejects big tech’s right to regulate online speech

#280
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It already passed, it's a law on the books in Texas. And now it's been upheld at by both trial and circuit courts. FWIW: there's one last chance at SCOTUS to undo this, but if that doesn't work out what we're almost certain to see instead of "pre-filtering" is just "No Tweeting from Texas".

The apparent disdain for Texas in this thread is bizarre.

There wouldn't be disdain for Texas if Texas didn't do stupid things.
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