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Increase: Banking API

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Re: Increase: Banking API

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do the launderers have access to thousands of accounts? And why wouldn't the actual owners of the accounts report the transactions?

The api seems to let you create new accounts fairly easily. Seems odd to me as the API provider is the bank. Based on KYC I presume they think they are all splits of the same account holder? I learned the other day that the name on account means shit, because scammers often give $account_details + $catfish_name and receive the money to $bank_details + $real_name. I don’t see how splitting to 1000 transactions and sen…

> I don’t see how splitting to 1000 transactions and sending money to yourself helps with money laundering or undercover money sending

Banks rely on a fixed set of rules to trigger an investigation for money laundering. One of these rules is the value of the transaction. I worked in retail whilst at Uni in the UK and we often had people who had lot's of money in their accounts unable to make large purchases due to these checks. Their payment would be automatically blocked and you would get a phone number they had to call to be able to make the payment. It was for example when buying a £5000 kitchen (I worked in the equivalent of home depot in the UK). If they could have split that transaction down to say 10 payments of £500 it wouldn't have triggered anything on the bank side.

Overall these banks process a lot of transactions and so heavily rely on these rules to keep them within the law. They don't always work as can be seen here and the bank noticed that users were able to circumvent their crappy ruleset by split big transactions down to lots of small transactions.

Not sure about sending money to yourself I suspect they mean transferring money between two accounts you control which is different in the banking for from sending money to yourself. If you are in control of both accounts you are laundering the money by transferring it to another account when you secretly control both. It's a basic way people like the mafia and such have laundered money for decades. They will do it through facade companies or suchlike. So they have one of the gang be legit and "clean" setup a shop who deposits cash into their bank account from "sales". The shop is a real place that you could technically buy stuff from. They then transfer their profits to this other account that is the gangsters account. The gangsters is part owner and they are receiving money as they "own" the shop and the shop has made money from sales. The sales though are actually the gangster giving money to his own shop and them claiming that as sales to the bank. The bank doesn't know that the money is actually from selling drugs or robbing stores or w/e illegal stuff they have done. The result is that you have taken "dirty" money i.e. money that has came from some illegal activity and with this strange process you have made it into "clean" money that's come from some legal activity.

So basically all money laundering will be transferring money to "yourself" but it will be via a third party that probably takes a small cut for helping. It's worked like this for years and is super common.

The fixed set of rules they have in bank is because it used to be that making money movements was hard so the criminals would transfer say £250k in a single transaction as sales revenue. So banks could easily spot this and take action. Making money movements easier means they can bypass this check.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#272
post #82

I made an API for a bank... I was a third party and made the API by screen scraping their webUI. I sent their devs a link and initially there were positive messages going back and forth. The API allowed you to see balance, transaction history, and make payments. Before long, the API got quite popular, and lots of people were using it to make lots of payments automatically. You know what makes money laundering super e…

Heh, you got off easy. I spent six years of actual work learning this lesson the hard way back in 2006-2012. In retrospect, I should have paid a lot more attention when Patric Collison told me he was spending his days reading up banking regulations. Eh, too boring, I thought, what could possibly be in there that a little code couldn't paper over? That mistake cost me the opportunity to be an early hire at Stripe.

Examples of what you discovered? This isn’t clicking for me…

Re: Increase: Banking API

#274

I made an API for a bank... I was a third party and made the API by screen scraping their webUI. I sent their devs a link and initially there were positive messages going back and forth. The API allowed you to see balance, transaction history, and make payments. Before long, the API got quite popular, and lots of people were using it to make lots of payments automatically. You know what makes money laundering super e…

I still don’t fully understand the logic behind the banks investigating money laundering and.m withholding money. If I am laundering money, report me to authorities and give me my money back, if I need to be fined or have to respond for a crime, I respond to government not a private entity

Re: Increase: Banking API

#275
post #69
post #58

> Anything that you can achieve with PDFs, presence, and persistence in a bank branch you can do with our API. Not sure how to take this. With a small tweak like "you can eventually do" I would let it pass without criticism. I work with bank cores, imaging, BSA and related middleware on a daily basis. The scope and complexity of these systems is incomprehensible to most. Many of our clients don't even try to think ab…

Traditional banks have literally decades of legacy to deal with which drags them down. Many neobanks have shown that it's possible to provide a better and cheaper service when you start from scratch. A few examples of features neobanks i use provide that traditional banks don't have - virtual cards on the fly, for free; SEPA Instant for free; Open API; smart dynamic budgeting and expense sharing.

A better, cheaper and much more limited service. For many people and businesses, most of the time this is indeed enough but this legacy is being used and needed.

As others have mentioned legacy banks here in Scandinavia are slowly catching up, the main reason being the slow trickle of custeos to neobanks.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#276
I'm in the banking API space. Yes, the current technology is decrepit and garbage. It's not the bottleneck though. Risk management and underwriting is. If you want to build a SaaS in this space, the hard part is figuring out how to vet customers cheaply and quickly. Every customer you sign up is a potential OFAC (Office of Foreign Access Control), BSA (Banking Secrecy Act), or AML (Anti-Money Laundering) violation.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#277
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> legacy to deal with which drags them down A non-zero amount of that legacy is due to regulations and compliance. Most of what a bank does is totally invisible to the end customer. A "neobank" is almost always just a shiny consumer-oriented facade in front of a grumpy old bank. Someone still has to follow all of those laws.

Plaid founder's new startup column is building a bank from scratch for developers. https://column.com/

This is still just a fancy rebranding of an old bank:

https://www.norcalbank.com/

Their FDIC charter was issued in 2006.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard of a case where a person did this and won their claim in small claims court, the defendant (I think it was Verizon?) never showed up. They got a default judgement, but still couldn't actually collect the amount owed. So they ended up filing a foreclosure on the actual building - and it worked! The foreclosure went through, and the company almost lost their brick and mortar store. Took years for the process, b…

If you're talking about this one: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-florida-foreclo... The threat was enough to fix the failed transaction. The manager was able to call someone and issue a check, rather than have their branch auctioned off.

I wonder how many employees/customers at that branch thought some serious FDIC stuff was going down and BoA was going to go into receivership.

Re: Increase: Banking API

#279
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have specified that I'm talking about EU-based neobanks, which are all real banks as far as I am aware (some are entities of bigger banking groups, some are standalone startups). US banking being largely obsolete as a whole (checks? paid wire transfers that take days to arrive?) probably explains why there are no real neobanks in the US and they're all just a UI in front of a legacy bank. I doubt it has much…

Most of EU-based neobanks are NOT real banks. 90% of them are just a frontend. Even Revolut that you cite was just a frontend until January 2021 where it became a bank, but just in the UK: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolut#History

Revolut is not a bank in the UK

Re: Increase: Banking API

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, surely must be an equivalent of a payroll company that can make all these payments for you? We use Deel and upwork for our freelancers

I think the difference is that the freelancers in our business can be paid very different amounts in a month, from ~$10-5000 in range. Deel is probably fine for you with what you're paying freelancers with its price, but imagine we have a freelancer only do, let's say, $30 worth of work in a month. Deel's cheapest plan is $49/mo. That is more than we're paying the FL! If you're paying the FL e.g. $3000/mo it's worth…

Have you looked at Upwork? We pay some of our offshore Customer Service people through Upwork. I'm not directly involved in that but presumably the economics work as their hourly rates are between $5-$15 per hour.
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