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What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

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Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known one place that did bend SAP to their will, and they were stuck on a soon to lose support version despite having almost 100 SAP developers on staff (almost half their entire IT)

With 100 mildly competent developers on staff (although not with SAP developers) a company can develop in house everything they need to run a business in a period of time that is shorter than what is needed for a typical "SAP adjustment".

Yeah because developing business practices from scratch for a giant company is a coding problem so 100 developers should solve it... probably as difficult as making the next Uber for rikshas, right?

Posters in this thread are so clueless it hurts to read.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#272
post #171

My mother works for a fairly large textile lab. For decades, they used an internally developed system for lab reports (they had a few programmers and admins they called the "nerds" that did nothing else than extend and maintain the system). The company switched to a SAP solution a few years ago. Chaos ensued. The SAP solution missed so many edge cases that a huge number of lab reports were either inaccurate or comple…

That’s because SAP is a bed of Procrustes.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of large government departments where some idiot in the IT architecture team says: "Woah there buddy! Why do you think it's safe to assume that Microsoft Office is what we're going to use? What if we decide to use Open Office?" That's maybe one or two words away from a literal conversation in a huge meeting with dozens of high-level IT staff overseeing an org with 30K staff and a petabyte of existing Micro…

There have been tons of innovation in the field of electrical engineering since the standard voltages and frequencies were fixed. New installations are made to a better standard than older ones, while still maintaining interoperability. They don't blindly stick to the status quo without ever questioning if there's a more cost-efficient option like big-corp IT departments tend to do.

So if you were building a 40-storey high rise office building and the sparky you hired decided to install electrical outlets that were all 400 Volts and 30 Hz, you'd be fine with that?

"Why stick to the status quo?"

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#274

"Everyone" is on SAP or Oracle. And yet... They send you PDF invoices with no consistent formatting. There's never a decent way to get an electronic invoice. Any electronic files you do get, such as lists of invoices, are in a completely different format from all the others. There's no way to place an electronic order without using their website (manually or by scraping) At best, stuff comes by email. Often, you get…

EDI solves all of these

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#275
post #56

This is a good time to remind everyone of the rules of SAP integration: 1) Your company processes MUST adapt to SAP processes. That's it. You can try customising SAP to fit your processes, but you will just waste time and hundreds of millions of money and then you will fail. Lidl spent almost a decade and 500M€ on its SAP project, but didn't follow rule #1: https://www.henricodolfing.com/2020/05/case-study-lidl-sap-d…

Again, as I noted elsewhere in the thread, I worked in R&D at SAP for 4 years (16 years ago), but I have no deep love for it. But I do have some understanding of where it fits in the landscape. What you've said is absolutely true, but it's mostly a feature, not a bug. Once you get big enough to need SAP, it's actually useful to put your business processes on a standardized platform. It's painful, always mind bendingl…

I understand where you're coming from but ...

   > There's virtually no competitive advantage to having unique business processes.
I'm not intending to take this sentence out of the context of the rest of your post (on its own, I don't think you agree with that[0]), but I think even in context of "specific to resource planning" there are many competitive advantages that companies pursue.

Take "Time Accounting" for example. I'm not referring to tracking hourly employee hours for payroll, I'm referring to tracking salary employee "project time." Every past salaried position I've had at a company with more than 90 employees had its own custom time tracking software[1]. The first company to do this was a multi-national telecom that I worked for. It was done so that each project could be broken out into its stages and the portion of the employees' salary could be itemized among "Capital Expenses" and "Operational Expenses". This was so important to the company that it warranted a massive development effort along with a corporate initiative to get 100% of time reporting in "on time." They did this as you'd expect a huge company would -- fail to hand in a time sheet on time a few weeks in a row and you'd get dinged more for that mistake than anything else.

The second and third companies ended up "accidentally developing time tracking software" specifically because there was competitive advantages to improving "Resource Planning". It was most helpful to my last employer. Their businesses was creating new products (often hardware/software combinations) for companies. This involved hiring a large number of people specialized in things that had limited cross-over. Resource Planning was predicting when what skills at what level would be available. This, necessarily, involved tracking what time was spent on projects in the past to improve those predictions and ultimately ballooned into a full time management and accounting application for the business (they sold "our time" to customers at the end of the day so it helped them to plan what to charge).

I'm curious -- from your perspective, is it that the competitive advantage is lost "because the tools that everyone is stuck with won't work" if you stray too far from "standardized" or is there another advantage to this standardization?

[0] Unique business processes and marketing are frequently the difference between the #1 and #2 company in a given space.

[1] In one case (about 250 employee global company), the company wrote it as a concept for a future product but once it was available, the existing solution was tossed primarily because the business side really liked the flexibility. In another it grew out of a pet project and became entrenched. At the remaining two, a decision was made to develop something from the ground up.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#277
post #171

My mother works for a fairly large textile lab. For decades, they used an internally developed system for lab reports (they had a few programmers and admins they called the "nerds" that did nothing else than extend and maintain the system). The company switched to a SAP solution a few years ago. Chaos ensued. The SAP solution missed so many edge cases that a huge number of lab reports were either inaccurate or comple…

What was the motivation to switch to SAP? Was the in-house solution lacking?

If it was like typical ERP/MRP rollouts...

The short answer is that a sales guy in a nice suit took some execs out for steaks and more than a couple cocktails.

The long answer is that management, these days, is trained to outsource everything while still being clueless about what the people they're replacing actually do.

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#278

ERP industry is so hard(painful) that I wouldnt want to work in it unless they paid top of the top Good luck competing in that industry > basic installation of SAP has 20,000 database tables, 3,000 of which are configuration tables. In those tables, there are ~8,000 configuration decisions you need before even getting started. Gotta be fun :)

The only field german software could compete. [ ] Digital Bureaucracy [ ] All of the above [ ] None of the above My little pet theory is that the old "Do as you told" buisness-culture is to blame for germanys inability to produce great software. Software needs developers with agency, who refuse "idiotic" tasks and fight back to improve the product. Know an israeli who complained about "endless arguing" in israeli sof…

Salesforce says hello :-)

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#279
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My little pet theory is that the old "Do as you told" buisness-culture is to blame for germanys inability to produce great software. Software needs developers with agency, who refuse "idiotic" tasks and fight back to improve the product. This I have experienced first hand where this junior product manager who wrote some ticket whose requirements when got challenged says "it's mentioned here so you have to do it and…

Its really tough to change that mindset though, once it takes hold, its so deeply ingrained. ("Ober sticht unter"). Basically the whole education system needs to push discussions more, were you have to argue a point, proof you are right and stick to your guns. Something regarding this is going right in some education systems and cultures, and fails utterly in others. Its a education to lead, instead of education to b…

>"Ober sticht unter"

As a Skat player, this is only true in Null, the game you actively try to "lose". Fitting, I guess?

Re: What's SAP, and why's it worth $163B? (2020)

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Jira is popular because it's flexible. You can customize Jira to fit any process. That flexibility comes with a price tag, which is performance. SAP is a complete opposite, a truly inflexible “my way or highway” type of system.

Going to copy my older comment: One very large video game studio has tons of automation for Jira. Imagine someone deciding to add new weapon. The automation creates 100s of tasks for concept artists, 3d artists, animators, sound artists, software developers with complex dependencies better those. Most importantly, automation creates multiple QA steps for each element of completed work. The same exists for levels, ene…

That may be true for certain industries, but a lot of shops work on CRUD apps and use Jira in its fairly stock configuration. Linear or something like that could do the same job for them just fine.
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