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Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

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Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#271

Post by falcolas »

pkulak wrote: post #185
falcolas wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the hardest parts about buying a home, apart from all the stuff that isnt fun about buying a home, is finding somewhere that is walkable to... anything. That's because if you want an individual home, you're giving up the customer density required to make those amenities viable. In a world with the internet, at-home delivery, and yes, cars, it's simply not economically viable to create a grocery store that on…

OP said _home_, not single family house.

In addition to the sibling comment, if the OP is looking for an apartment or condo, they will find exactly what they are looking for - housing with plenty of amenities within walking/biking distance. I live next to a 40k population city who has exactly that.

If they're not finding it, it's probably because they're looking for a low density housing option.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#272

Post by fwsgonzo »

I live in a small remote town on an island, and I could not be happier. Silent, big houses, everything I need in shops and restaurants, and incredible scenery every day. I used to live in the big city when I was studying, and it was horrible. I used to have a window open just to get some air into the horrible apartment I lived in, and the windowsill would have a layer of asphalt dust.

The big city has a few things that you can't get elsewhere, but you can always just travel there when you need to/want to.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#273

Post by dont__panic »

neither_color wrote: post #233
jaywalk wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've traveled to plenty of cities where many/most people don't own cars, in the US and Europe. I still have zero desire to live in such a city.

Same, everyone has this loaded idea that as soon as you visit a city out of the US it's a utopia. "Walkable-city" often means taking 2-4 different forms of transportation to get from A to B, and if you're going to 5 different places in a day before coming home(say class, the gym, the grocery store, a specific store for that one thing you need today, then dinner with a friend) it means carrying 1-2 bags with you all d…

Despite living in major US cities for much of my adult life, I do not enjoy ride shares. I far prefer walking, biking, or public transport. Even if it's hot out, or raining, or even snowing. As long as I'm not in danger of being run over by cars, I'm happy.

I don't think all cities outside of the US are utopias. I just think you can walk around more comfortably. I've taken public transport plenty, thank you, and I know it's not always as convenient as taking a car. I don't mind carrying around a backpack with items in it, or putting a pannier on my bike.

> I have a feeling a lot of this sentiment is driven by digital nomads who booked a hostel next to a wework and do nothing but go to a coworking space for half the day then sightseeing and get the impression that everyone lives like this. I've stayed in more than one world class city and if you can afford it you eventually just start taking a lot more ubers than you'll care to admit

Please don't paint everyone who wants car alternatives with the same brush.

Anyone who would stoop to the level of constant ride sharing doesn't like public transportation, biking, or walking. I loathe ride shares as much as I hate cars. They exacerbate almost all car problems in US cities.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#274

Post by welshwelsh »

massysett wrote: post #133

I always snicker at these "built for cars" screeds, as though the "cars" are empty self-serving machines that are fulfilling their own needs. Every car has at least one person in it. That person is going shopping, going to work, socializing, etc., or servicing the needs of others - my plumber's van is essential so that he can fix my plumbing. So no, places are not "built for cars" - they are built to satisfy human ne…

Most cars have only one person in it, despite taking up as much space as 10 people.

Most cars are parked for most of the day, which is a complete waste of space. Stores need huge parking lots, which are usually mostly empty, to accommodate the busiest times.

Cars are a horrible way of fulfilling human needs. Going shopping? The corner store next to your apartment should have everything you need for daily life. Work? It's 2022, most people can work from home. Socializing? If it involves alcohol, you better not be driving.

A plumber's van is the only valid use case for a car you listed. City streets should be restricted to commercial vehicles and public transportation only.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#275

Post by falcolas »

Xylakant wrote: post #269
falcolas wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are no longer the only way to bring in goods from outside walking distance. Online orders can also supplant the need for cars in suburbs, while producing a significantly more options than a mom&pop grocery store. And with Covid restrictions and work-from-home, deliveries and online ordering were cemented as normal behavior.

The bakery in my parents town is famous enough for their bread that some people drive 50kms to buy that bread. No delivery service will come close to that, no way. Though I generally agree with that: the need for individual cars will become less and less as more options become available.

So the bakery relies at least partially on car culture to survive?

And there's always services who will pick up bread from such locations and deliver it. With or without the bakery's backing.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#276

Post by yeeyeeyee »

I love my car and I love driving to work every day. Cars enable privacy, freedom from bias and judgement, and a place to think. Also freedom from getting murdered on the Caltrain. "Loneliness is dangerous" is easy to say when you're on top of the social hierarchy with a job at Vox. Also, what a misleading lie of "a majority prefer to live in cities, suburbs, towns"; the survey "cited" gave 6 options, and 31% chose rural areas, and the "majority" comes from the other 5. I find it more surprising that 30% of Americans actually prefer to live in the woods.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#277

Post by bluedino »

kennend3 wrote: post #125
jandrewrogers wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% is 100 million Americans. Also, a passport was not required to travel in North America (not sure if that is still the case). I traveled throughout Mexico and Canada before ever having a passport, for example.

I take it you have not travelled in some time? This hasn't been the case since "9/11" when the rules were changed. you need a passport to travel between USA/CA (not sure about Mexico but i would assume it needs a passport too?).

Some US states have an 'enhanced drivers license' which allows travel to Mexico/Canada via car or boat. However, you need a passport to fly into those countries.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#278

Post by criddell »

bmismyname wrote: post #137
dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

I hope it's a trend, but I think it's more likely that the government will do everything it can to do what's most profitable for the biggest lobbyists. Cars create a huge amount of pointless fake economic activity and bullshit jobs that will never go away.

I think a lot of anti-car people underestimate how much people like their cars. People spend way more on their car than they need to. It's another thing they can customize and personalize.

I'm in central Texas and cars are somewhat necessary because of weather. Not enough businesses have employee showers, so biking or walking is often not a realistic option.

I also think if real self-driving cars are developed, it's going to fuel sprawl like nothing before. We will look back on cities of today and think they were decently dense.

These days, I'm pretty much in the pro-car camp. In my 20's I didn't like them and chose to live in pretty small places as close to the heart of the city as I could and I got by with a bicycle and small motorcycle. Then I had kids and we moved to the 'burbs for all the usual reasons. Now that my kids are at college I think my wife and I would like to move further out of the city where we can have a smallish house with enough land for things like a big workshop, greenhouse, gym, sauna, etc... When we get old enough that we aren't as engaged with our hobbies, maybe we would head back into the city for the closing chapter of our lives. I don't think that type of arc is all that unusual. People want different things in different parts of their life.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#279

Post by pkulak »

mjevans wrote: post #227
pkulak wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP said _home_, not single family house.

Not OP, but... Apartments suck, a lot, in the US. * Noise; aren't built to sufficient privacy levels. * Smell; laundry, cooking, or whatever... * not designed to scrub, filter, and direct exhaust. * Patios == smoke or grill; even though those are banned by policy. * Somehow cost more than renting elsewhere * Rent seeking causes negative patterns * Car parking hell As much as the anti-car crowd wants to be anti-car, t…

Doesn't have to be an apartment. Just has to be a house without a 40ft setback on a giant lot. I live on the right side of a duplex and there's plenty of density to support a grocery store in walking distance.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#280

Post by falcolas »

tjr225 wrote: post #212
AlwaysRock wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the hardest parts about buying a home, apart from all the stuff that isnt fun about buying a home, is finding somewhere that is walkable to... anything. I've rented my whole life and spent my entire adult life in cities. The idea of having to get in the car to get milk or something from the corner store, or have to drive to ANY restaurant, or not have some type of walking/running path within a few blocks of my…

We moved to a smaller city(Tacoma) inside of a big city metro(Seattle) for about half of the cost of a SFH in Seattle proper and it’s great. Can walk and bike to multiple grocery stores, beach, parks, etc. If I get the big city itch it’s easy enough to scratch it.

Tacoma's nice. I lived there for a few years, and wouldn't mind moving back to that area. That said, where I lived (an apartment on the top of the knob west of the docks), I couldn't realistically bike or walk to anything of value other than the bus stop.
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