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Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

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Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#271

Post by Gordonjcp »

ornornor wrote: post #260
Gordonjcp wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't shipping plant-based food around the planet cause massive climate change? PLant-based diets only make sense if you live somewhere where it's ecologically cheaper to eat plants than animals. This doesn't work, for most of the world.

There is a Kurzgesagt video on that exact point. Their analysis is that the emissions from shipping plants from further away to make your tofu is a drop in the bucket compared to the emissions you won’t be generating anymore by not consuming meat anymore. Meat which has to also have their food plants shipped around to them, on top of everything else. See https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs

Okay but animals raised for meat don't eat food shipped from round the world.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#272

Post by Gordonjcp »

paulcole wrote: post #247
Gordonjcp wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't shipping plant-based food around the planet cause massive climate change? PLant-based diets only make sense if you live somewhere where it's ecologically cheaper to eat plants than animals. This doesn't work, for most of the world.

Shipping anything around the world causes massive climate change. > This doesn't work, for most of the world. Yes, other than significant parts of Asia, North America, South America, Africa, and Europe this is a non-starter.

Tell me you don't know where food comes from without saying you don't know where food comes from.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#273

Post by paulcole »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #271
ornornor wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Kurzgesagt video on that exact point. Their analysis is that the emissions from shipping plants from further away to make your tofu is a drop in the bucket compared to the emissions you won’t be generating anymore by not consuming meat anymore. Meat which has to also have their food plants shipped around to them, on top of everything else. See https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs

Okay but animals raised for meat don't eat food shipped from round the world.

Oh awesome, I've always wanted to talk to someone with experience in the global meat industry. Can you answer a few questions?

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#274

Post by Gordonjcp »

franga2000 wrote: post #191
Gordonjcp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you going to replace those with?

Trains

So you have to build railway lines everywhere. What's the ecological impact of all that? Where's all the concrete for all the bridges going to come from?

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#275

Post by Gordonjcp »

hardlianotion wrote: post #203
Gordonjcp wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water usage isn't an environmental issue. There's as much water now as there ever was, barring a few hundred litres aboard the ISS. The issue is that you want to live in a desert but with a lifestyle like you're not in a desert. The hard conversation you need to have is that California is not habitable. There's no water and there's nowhere to grow food. If you want to make it habitable you'll need to turn all those g…

If you think Glasgow is t-short weather all year round, you are quite inured to the cold and wet.

Glasgow is drier than Rome, and on average about 5° cooler at any given time of year.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#276

Post by Gordonjcp »

konschubert wrote: post #209
Gordonjcp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you going to replace those with?

If only the last mile is done by truck, road maintenance taxes will have virtually zero impact on price. In Europe, a truck may transport about 250000 packs of yoghurt. (Assuming 100ml packs.) If the truck pays 3 Euro road maintenance tax per 30-mile trip from and to the railway cargo hub, that comes out at 0.0001 Euros per can of yoghurt, a hundredth of a cent.

What kind of distance are you talking about in real terms for "the last mile"?

A few hundred miles or so?

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#277

Post by swayvil »

throwaway0x7E6 wrote: post #167
swayvil wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Localize manufacturing for one.

manufacturing out of thin air? if you aren't transporting the finished product, then you're transporting the ingredients. unless you picture raising wheat in urban environment, in which case I'll just leave you to it.

Grow wheat in fields close to town. Use smaller trucks (than gigantic semis) for transportation.

This ain't rocket science.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#278

Post by hnick »

konschubert wrote: post #209
Gordonjcp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you going to replace those with?

If only the last mile is done by truck, road maintenance taxes will have virtually zero impact on price. In Europe, a truck may transport about 250000 packs of yoghurt. (Assuming 100ml packs.) If the truck pays 3 Euro road maintenance tax per 30-mile trip from and to the railway cargo hub, that comes out at 0.0001 Euros per can of yoghurt, a hundredth of a cent.

3 euros seems low, or maybe the road use tax here is just too high.

One EV road use tax in Australia (Victoria) is 2.5c per km, I'll assume that's fair for now (I doubt it is, but anyway). A prior post said a truck does 5,000 times more damage than a car, which means the truck should pay $125 per km if it's fair. So a 30 mile trip would be roughly $6000. About 2.5c per yoghurt.

Not a lot. But it's on each item and will add up. Not sure how often trucks run empty to and fro either, someone has to pay for that. Petrol excise here was halved to 22c/L and my car uses about 8L/100km so that 2.5c does not seem too unreasonable.

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#279

Post by wil421 »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #159
wil421 wrote: post #50

Patagonia sells a few items are are made from recycled fishing nets. I have a hat and swim trunks made from it.

They also sell apparel treated with pfoas/pfas which are gradually polluting the ocean more and more, indefinitely.

They are getting rid of them by 2024.

https://www.patagonia.com/our-footprint/dwr-durable-water-re...

Re: Fishing gear accounts for an alarming amount of plastic in oceans (2021)

#280

Post by hnick »

eru wrote: post #208
hnick wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regressive because the new "tax" on the bread is a flat value, independent of the buyer's income and means. That's what the word means when it comes to taxes and fees. And yes, eating to survive is kind of regressive in that sense, but it's not what I'm talking about. If we generally assume society is unfair but still balanced around current expenditures, adding more may upset that balance.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter whether any one particular fee or tax is progressive or flat or regressive. It's the overall tax burden (or net payment, for poor people) of the whole system that's important for these kinds of fairness considerations. The design of individual taxes should be more concerned with efficiency and deadweight losses.

I agree with that. But there has to be minimal delay between any expense and refund if you are making the up front cost higher for the lower income brackets. Waiting until the end of the year for a rebate won't be good enough.
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