EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms • Hacker News Board

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#271

Post by the_duke » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:26 PM UTC

chacham15 wrote: post #23

superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

The US already has one which is supposed to be voted upon soon: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/271...

This is just for payment providers though, not alternative app stores.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#272

Post by seydor » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

988747 wrote: post #8

superb-owl wrote: post #5

This is huge. Forcing Apple to allow app side-loading, third-party payments, etc is going to wrest away control of the iOS ecosystem (and eat pretty heavily into their revenues [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/10/apple-implies-it-generated-r... I hope some of these regulations spill over into the U.S. and the rest of the world.

I wonder if it would make more financial sense for Apple to withdraw from EU market, rather than complying. The numbers for 2021 are pretty much in line: $89B - Apple sales in Europe (including some non-EU countries, most notably UK) $85B - Apple AppStore revenue worldwide. The question is: which one has more potential for growth.

it will be a ~10% drop of their profits maximum . They have nothing to fear, and have been engaging in these shenanigans just because they can

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#273

Post by cycomanic » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:27 PM UTC

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

Can we stop pretending that Apple has the users best interest in mind? They just want to be the gatekeeper for lucrative applications/functions so they can charge for it. That they somehow convinced apple users that it's somehow in their interest just shows how good their marketing is.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#274

Post by dijit » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:28 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #224

ajaimk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I want this to be true, consoles only exist because of game revenue. Not sure a $2000 PS5 is as appealing

Why would a PS5 cost that much? Has there ever been a console where, over the life of the console, the hardware was sold for a loss?

> Has there ever been a console where, over the life of the console, the hardware was sold for a loss?

All of them.

Speaking about PS5 specifically: there's quite a few advancements in there that you're not thinking about, the kraken decompressor that can run at native NVME speed in hardware and load assets directly into video memory has no PC equivalent. Though PC vendors are trying to do NVMEGPUMem these days, it still can't do effectively 9GBit like the PS5 can (theoretically).

Even ignoring those architectural advantages and the R&D; last time someone did a cost comparison of an equivelant PC (a year ago) it was $1,600: https://gamerant.com/ps5-specs-pc/

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#275

Post by corrral » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:30 PM UTC

eklavya wrote: post #197

oellegaard wrote: post #191

It's fun how Android users are so excited on behalf of Apple users in terms of letting Apple users install custom apps from outside the App Store. Being an Apple user for more than 15 years, I couldn't be more happy with the fact that Apple has vetted the applications you find in App Store. Also, naturally, App Developers are excited. Well, perhaps you should think about the users - we don't care about you having to…

Exclusively Apple user here, couldn’t be more happier for the announcement. Keeps my favoured platform alive and innovative. Btw, you can keep using App Store so I don’t understand the issue here.

The concern is that e.g. Facebook will use their might to push a less-privacy-respecting app store, or use the threat of that to get Apple to loosen privacy protections. Google will almost certainly promote Chrome the same way they have everywhere else, and gain a lot of traction mostly from users who just did it because Google said to and they clicked "OK", not because they actively want Chrome (same as how they took over the desktop).

The main argument against the first concern seem to be "there aren't any successful alternative app stores on Android (seems there are in China, but OK, let's allow that) so it doesn't matter", but 1) iOS is a different market—far more lucrative per user, far more spending by users so the ecosystem is less ad-dependent, and with more restrictions on bad behavior by apps than Google imposes and 2) if that's true, why is it important to do this in the first place?

The main argument against the latter is... well, I haven't seen anything even as good as the above. Just "yeah but I hate Safari because I'm a web app developer, so I don't care if Google owns the entire web as long as it means I can use Bluetooth from the web browser on iOS"

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#276

Post by kuratkull » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:31 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #209

ginko wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We are not talking about GDPR or "socialism" or whatever. We're talking about regulating Apple so that other mega corporations can create their own app stores on iOS and then do whatever they want. So don't use those. Personally I'll mostly stick to Apple's app store along with some Free Software one where I download Firefox and some other open source apps.

> So don't use those. The problem is that it lessens Apple's collective bargaining power. They can't make Facebook (again just as an example) comply with privacy rules on the iOS App Store because Facebook can and will offer its product exclusively on its own store or on a third-party store where they don't have to use these rules. The feedback loop for privacy rights is such that people will say screw the privacy ri…

I think it's more likely that this would technically mean suicide for Facebook (or whoever would try this). And if users actually follow then the bet paid off and the users deserve what's coming to them. I don't see this happening in the real world though.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#277

Post by vorpalhex » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

nonrandomstring wrote: post #75

nojito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine thinking that punishing success is the way to go. Europe loves propping up failing companies and industries. Not very surprising that they would go after a company with barely a 30% share of the market.

Was I dreaming or was there a $700 billion US banking sector bailout in 2008?

That's a poor comparison both since banks always work a bit differently and since the US Gov made back their money on the bailout.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#278

Post by oaiey » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:33 PM UTC

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

There is nothing in this article which would prohibit the gatekeepers to extensively warn the user when accessing these features. Apple had tons of trust from its users. They can just say that this third party usage is dangerous one the first time and re - reporting bad usage later.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#279

Post by Epskampie » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:34 PM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #264

_the_inflator wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never underestimate the creative genius of Apple. They will come up with new solutions to keep their walled garden. "Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet" I bet this is going to be a horrible user experience. "Are you really sure?", "Apple takes no responsibility not warranty" whatsoever. What sound usually easy on paper...

I agree, it could be ugly. The GDPR is supposed to be great, but what practical impact did it have on most of us? Cookie consent dialogs everywhere .

You can request and get a full copy of your data anywhere, and be fully deleted if you want. Every company has become aware and afraid of data leaks because they are required to report them.

The cookie banner thing is… unfortunate.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#280

Post by hyperpape » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

cycomanic wrote: post #273

hyperpape wrote: post #175

There's several very good provisions in this legislation (3rd party payment processors, non-preferential treatment for 1st party apps), there are several that have a mix of upsides and downsides (sideloading is one--I personally like knowing that Facebook can't ask people to sideload some privacy destroying crap on iOS). Then there's: - Allow developers to integrate their apps and digital services directly with those…

Can we stop pretending that Apple has the users best interest in mind? They just want to be the gatekeeper for lucrative applications/functions so they can charge for it. That they somehow convinced apple users that it's somehow in their interest just shows how good their marketing is.

Apple is a company, and it’s interested in making profits. Right now, its methods of making profits are slightly more aligned with what privacy conscious users desire than some other companies’, and that’s good.

Apple absolutely needs to be checked in other ways—-the fact that it’s selling advertising while setting policies that hurt other advertisers stinks to high heaven. Let antitrust rake them over the coals for that.