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US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

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Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#271

Post by cpursley »

labrador wrote: post #263
FpUser wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Continue doing business as usual as if they're not murdering women and children?" No we should do everything possible to stop it. There is a problem though - when "murdering women and children" is done by approved country "Continue doing business as usual" is pretty much what the West does. And I am not aware of any real repercussions for the crimes committed.

You have to pick your battles and fact is, the American public wants to stop Russian atrocities in Ukraine. They don't want to do anything about Yemen or Syria. I'm sure many books have been written about how and why people get involved to help strangers.

Yes, Manufacturing Consent is a good one.

The media & their masters tells us who to support. And Ukraine vs Russia is profitable.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#272

Post by mbg721 »

labrador wrote: post #263
FpUser wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Continue doing business as usual as if they're not murdering women and children?" No we should do everything possible to stop it. There is a problem though - when "murdering women and children" is done by approved country "Continue doing business as usual" is pretty much what the West does. And I am not aware of any real repercussions for the crimes committed.

You have to pick your battles and fact is, the American public wants to stop Russian atrocities in Ukraine. They don't want to do anything about Yemen or Syria. I'm sure many books have been written about how and why people get involved to help strangers.

The American public want what the TV tells them to want. Today it's Ukraine, but tomorrow nobody will be able to find Europe on a map.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#273

Post by themitigating »

mc32 wrote: post #258
themitigating wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism

Nope. It's just acknowledging how the world works (realpolitik --despite what anyone would love to think is a principled approach)

Our discussion was on the good and bad of the situation, that's what the pope was going on about. Doesn't matter if that's how the world works.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#274

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

88840-8855 wrote: post #170
snemvalts wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile RUB to USD is at its highest in nearly 5 years Is that meant to demonstrate economic strength? * Russians have massive amount of brain drain. Most of tech employees have left, leaving only people extracting oil, people who turn it into fertilizer and gasoline and supporting roles. * They can't build military tech because of sanctions. Starting to use 1950s and 1960s tanks. * They've privatized and violate…

It hurts the Russian, but the Russian lived in the Soviet Union and survived the Crazy 90s. They can suffer way more than Westerns spoiled by prosperity. And the best thing - rich Russian escaping Russia end up being sanctioned, hence, many stay. Let's see who can suffer more: Westerns + accepting a global food crisis with millions of dead people in the Third world (thanks to the sanctions, NOT the war per se) or the…

> global food crisis with millions of dead people in the Third world (thanks to the sanctions, NOT the war per se)

Yeah, I keep hear Putin repeat it, always blaming the West. There are two logical fallacies here: first, the Russian fleet is blocking Ukrainian ports, not the other way round, and second, even if we ignored the situation on the Black Sea, it is Putin who started the war. I know Russian accept this logic and victim-blaming, but its' strange to see it on HN.

As for Russians living through bad times, I still wonder why do you have to accept all this crappy treatment. I know when you revolted in 1917 the result was a total mess but maybe it will be better this time. I really believe the Russian people deserve a better fate than what the next years are going to bring you.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#275

Post by [deleted] »

thereddaikon wrote: post #243
gambiting wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted them and I'm Polish - I see Ukrainian people on our streets every day, I hear their stories and their suffering all the time, my family is housing several refugees already. The stuff that Russia is doing to that country is making my blood boil. If anything, I'm incredibly upset that EU is not doing more to tighten the screw on Russia. If we are unwilling to send our militaries to fight Russia in Ukraine,…

If it wasn't for Russia having nukes I think your government may have already joined the war at this point. Poland has made Germany look really bad in how much more forthcoming its been in aiding Ukraine against Russian aggression.

[deleted]

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#276

Post by hdjjhhvvhga »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #181
88840-8855 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It hurts the Russian, but the Russian lived in the Soviet Union and survived the Crazy 90s. They can suffer way more than Westerns spoiled by prosperity. And the best thing - rich Russian escaping Russia end up being sanctioned, hence, many stay. Let's see who can suffer more: Westerns + accepting a global food crisis with millions of dead people in the Third world (thanks to the sanctions, NOT the war per se) or the…

> It hurts the Russian, but the Russian lived in the Soviet Union and survived the Crazy 90s. They can suffer way more than Westerns spoiled by prosperity. From the Mongol invasions to WWII to the Soviet Union, Russians have a lot of experience with collective suffering and deprivation.

Yes, but why? Why do these people have to suffer all the time?

One reason I heard my Russian friends repeating is that "it's a bit country so we need a strong ruler to keep it together". But history shows this is not true. Also a federation of states like the USA would probably work better than the current setup where a short guy from Moscow is sending Buryat boys to die in a country they haven't seen before.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#277

Post by r00fus »

nostromo wrote: post #27

The US government has completely lost the ability to act strategically. Biden is currently in Saudi Arabia begging for more oil production, meanwhile he's blocking measures to increase North American oil production. So, instead of fixing our own problem with inflation, we're asking one of the worst regimes on Earth for help and enriching Russia with higher prices simultaneously. Even if you support greener energy, li…

> meanwhile he's blocking measures to increase North American oil production.

Increasing local oil production will do little - the barrel prices are not exactly high, but the price at the pump is high - why? Refining. And that's all controlled by oil companies. I wonder why? Perhaps they're just ginning for extra profit?

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#278

Post by kingofpandora »

themitigating wrote: post #224
ozzythecat wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, Ukraine has the right to join any alliance it wants and for Russia to invade over that is bullshit. In geopolitics, nobody has any particular rights. Whoever has the bigger stick and better propaganda gets their way. One could argue that there’s no reason to have sanctions on Cuba, that Palestinians should also have the right to self determination, that America doesn’t have the right to interfere in the de…

So "do this or we'll invade"? Why does it matter if a NATO country is on the border anyway? In the age of ICBMs, stealth bombers, and drones is the real concern that some large NATO force would march over the border for a land invasion of Russia?

The US hasn't exactly dropped the Monroe Doctrine.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#279

Post by nemo44x »

mourner wrote: post #239
nemo44x wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't think they are similar at all. This current situation is way more nuanced. This isn't Hitler blitzing into France. This is not genocide, you're exaggerating here. Honestly, if anything the Russian culture of the Eastern regions Russia is about to take was being wiped out. That was the actual genocide. It's why there are so many Russian supporting people there. When Russia came into Kiev I agree, it was…

At this point you're just parroting Russian propaganda without any clue of what you're talking about, so I don't think there's any point in further discussion.

I don't think so. I don't have a horse in this race and have read many sources on this conflict and it sort of results in a very grey picture here that isn't anything like what some popular news stations want to make it out to be. I think there's a lot of nuance here and isn't so black and white.

Re: US quietly urges more use of Russia fertilizer to ease food crisis

#280

Post by jacobolus »

cpursley wrote: post #266
jacobolus wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not as if Ukraine has anything better to offer. They have 260+ captured Russian tanks, for one thing. Ukraine has asked supporting countries to instead send howitzers, anti-air guns/missiles, and multiple-launch rockets. By the end of this war Ukraine might end up with the largest tank army in Europe. https://oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenti... By most reports Ukraine (and Russia for that…

Oh really? Sounds like they're already on the outskirts of Moscow and don't actually need the $40 billion. Maybe we can get some of that back?

Ukraine is currently getting hammered by Russian artillery in Donbas, and suffering 100+ dead soldiers per day (as reportedly is Russia). They will only win with large amounts of ongoing foreign military and economic aid from committed partners.

Why would they try to go to Moscow? They don’t have the logistical capacity to pull it off and it would be in nobody’s interest. Unlike Russia they don’t seem to be ruled by crazy people.

More realistically Ukraine will lose a bit more ground and a few more towns in Donbas before the Russian offensive culminates, and then as more supplies come in they will eventually counter-attack when they get a chance. The Russian military will run out of soldiers and equipment while the Russian economy sputters, and will be slowly pushed out of Ukrainian territory. What happens as a result to domestic policy in Russia will be highly volatile and is hard to predict.

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