And all the energy and effort and money doesn’t even help against child abuse.
EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
271–280 of 431 posts
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#272It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…
It's funny because in this regard, The Netherlands is actually trying to do better and change the laws to allow mutually consenting teens to do this stuff (still tentative) and punish blackmail, prostitution (edit: of minors), minor-adult sexual interaction etc. Our general mentality also seems to be a lot more lax and supportive of kids being victims of their own mistakes rather than going "yeah, that's illegal, let…
To be clear upfront: mandatory scanning of private communication is a no go. And even child protection advocates, mostly do not demand this. So here really other interests might be leading the EC, which is bad
However, particular servers in the Netherlands have been hosting a lot of CSAM and revenge porn type of material. The EU is increasingly becoming a major host for illegal and dangerous material. This is a reality and a problem.
The problem IMHO is that it is really hard to have a reasonable discussion on how to tackle this. Reasonable voices are often the quietest.
In Germany we woke up to really bad experience with pedophiles actually loudly undermining political parties in the past (particularly the Greens). Just as a reminder: This is not all black and white.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
>nobody wants to start falsely accusing innocent people. If anything, the 21st century has proven quite a few people are more than willing to do so when they deem the lack of true positives to be the greater evil. Or even just doing it for their own benefit.
Can you give some EU specific examples that can be considered representative and not huge outliers? Shit happens everywhere but where am I in Europe if anything there's a lack of law enforcement in the sense that prison terms always seem to be considered too low, people with sentences under X months don't actually go to jail because of overcrowding, police is constantly frustrated that people they pick off the street…
Julian Assange?
Cooperated corruption of multiple European countries, governments, prosecutors & supernational bodies (e.g. Interpol).
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The same as always. Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications?
>Do you have a guess about who is behind that lasting global push against private communications? Every single government ever?
This is the correct answer. People are lazy; politicians, police, your mail person, YOU. It's much easier to put on some coffee and start going through CSAM alerts from the emails and texts you AI sent you overnight and see what looks promising. Sure glad we got past those silly 4th amendment weirdos (or whatever the equivalent in your country is) who think privacy is less important than making my job easier. A decade down the line, a popular right/left wing nationalist with authoritarian tendencies wins. Now he sends down a request to comb through his opponent's messages to see what he can send him (or his relatives) to prison for daring to run against Him. A cop caught you flirting with his gf, let's just see what we can dig up on him on the CriminalSearch app...
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
And the national government excuse usually is, that they do it according to EU rules, directive or whatever. Denying responsibility at all levels at its finest. There are rare examples of resistance, like the attempt of Czech government to resist the EU firearms directive by putting the right to self-defense with a gun into the constitution. But mostly they just fold over.
There was no such thing from the EU; travel restrictions were imposed by individual countries first and foremost. You call it "fold over", but if you think of a positive thing, it's cooperation. Because we have open borders - which, if you look at Brexit, is a huge advantage for trade and the like - it doesn't make sense to allow firearms in one country but ban them in another. It's a give and take situation. The UK…
Please inform the IMF of this decimation. They seem to be unaware.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_...
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your government who wants to control you. Or do you still think that data is collected just so that Google can give you more ads ?
> Your government who wants to control you How exactly? In Italy we had 67 different governments since 1946. What can they do with CSAM data? Government can't blackmail citizen, they can't use CSAM scans for other purposes, they can't even authorize a scan, because that's the justice system prerogative. Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North…
> Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea?
It certainly feels, as if they are trying to do that.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is efficiency for the sake of efficiency worth it though? There's a second order effect I observed which I feel isn't discussed enough: when it's assumed that you can only walk/cycle or perhaps take the bus in an area, suddenly there's an additional premium imposed on space. The net result is accelerated gentrification. Anecdata: just about anyone I know from my generation was priced out of those walkable districts w…
That argument is ridiculous. So dense neighborhoods are popular, therefore prices are rising because more people want to live in a dense neighborhood. The solution to that is not "let's build more undesirable neighborhoods so prices are not increasing" but to change zoning regulations so more dense neighborhoods can be build to satisfy demand!
Or are they living there for jobs? That’s what I always hear as excuse for people to live there, not that they like dense neighbourhoods. I am old though so my network and (news/social) reading habits might be different.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#278As with the UK internet filters, the next step will be "Oh, so we have all this infrastructure already, we should extend it to other forms of illegal content, like piracy, DRM circumvention, etc"
This. I'm pretty sure I've read COVID contract tracing data being used for other purposes somewhere out there.
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#279It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…
It's funny because in this regard, The Netherlands is actually trying to do better and change the laws to allow mutually consenting teens to do this stuff (still tentative) and punish blackmail, prostitution (edit: of minors), minor-adult sexual interaction etc. Our general mentality also seems to be a lot more lax and supportive of kids being victims of their own mistakes rather than going "yeah, that's illegal, let…
This seems to imply normalizing scanning of private information between kids. All I see is getting them used to governmental privacy infringement early, so they won't complain about it later as adults. Very sneaky of them. Again it's "to save the children"
Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The automated filter won't care about the context though That's why we have a justice system. Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. People are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof's on the prosecution. We are talking about EU here, not Sudan.
> Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. "scary"?
being able to interpret law freely but at the same time being bound by precedent, is scary.
Law should be as unequivocal as possible.
Common law is the equivalent of the imperial units or driving on the left of the road.
They have been replaced by better units or superseded by more uniformly accepted standards.